Any Ideas

[The one 8,511]

My lab who's nine sometimes has a problem walking but I give her cod liver oil capsiluses it's like giving a kid calpol she's soon back to normal , I was thinking arthritis as some days it's a real struggle but when she's had the capsiluses twenty minutes later she's fine

[sandymere 8,263]

Likely a bit of age related stiffness but a good check over to make sure is a good idea.

The Cod liver oil won't have any immediate effect, there is a little poor evidence that it might help in the longer term but not in twenty minutes, that’s just the dog walking it off or such like.

There are lots of joint supplements on the market but little evidence that they work, in the main they help the owners more than the dogs by making them feel they have done something to help and so see the improvement that they want to see.

 

 

More on this

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-top-ten-pet-supplements-do-they-work/

 

 

[walshie 2,804]

I give my old dog a glucosamine tablet every day. Took a while to take effect, but the improvement has been vast.

[planete 120]

i looked up Arthritis Research for myself last week. Conclusions were that glucosamine sulphate and high levels of omega 3 were the most effective but it can take up to three months before seeing an improvement. Some people swear by organic cider vinegar too. I always think if it works for humans it would probably work for dogs as well.

[sandymere 8,263]

i looked up Arthritis Research for myself last week. Conclusions were that glucosamine sulphate and high levels of omega 3 were the most effective but it can take up to three months before seeing an improvement. Some people swear by organic cider vinegar too. I always think if it works for humans it would probably work for dogs as well.

That’s interesting Planate as the arthritis UK site has the effectiveness score for glucosamine sulphate was only 2 out of 5 and the effectiveness score for glucosamine hydrochloride was only 1…. And even these were qualified by the statement that the positive early studies were poor design and when better larger studies were undertaken the positive results disappeared!

 

It was one of those cases where everyone jumped on the bandwagon following a few pilot studies when they should have waited for bigger better studies as when these were undertaken it failed to meet expectations. Alas due to the early hype it has now become an urban myth cure like copper bracelets or Echinacea.

 

 

A more interesting area is Care giver placebo when looking a positive results

 

 

 

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2012 Nov 15;241(10):1314-9. doi: 10.2460/javma.241.10.1314.

 

Caregiver placebo effect for dogs with lameness from osteoarthritis.

 

Conzemius MG1, Evans RB.

 

Author information

 

• 1Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, Saint Paul, MN 55108, USA. conze012@umn.edu

 

Abstract

 

OBJECTIVE:

 

To document the caregiver placebo effect in owners and veterinarians of dogs with lameness from osteoarthritis.

 

DESIGN:

 

Prospective, randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled, multicenter clinical trial.

 

ANIMALS:

 

58 dogs with lameness secondary to osteoarthritis.

 

PROCEDURES:

 

Dogs enrolled in the placebo arm of an FDA-approved study were evaluated to determine the relationship between subjective (caregiver responses) and objective (force platform gait analysis) patient outcome measures.

 

RESULTS:

 

A caregiver placebo effect for owners evaluating their dog's lameness occurred 39.7% of the time. A caregiver placebo effect occurred 44.8% of the time when veterinarians examined dogs for lameness at a walk, 44.8% of the time when veterinarians examined dogs for lameness at a trot, and 43.1% of the time when veterinarians evaluated dogs for signs of pain on palpation of the joint. This effect was significantly enhanced with time. Mean ground reaction forces (GRFs) remained unchanged for dogs during treatment with the placebo. Individually, of 58 dogs, 5 had GRFs that worsened by ≥ 5% over 42 days, 7 had GRFs that improved by ≥ 5% over 42 days, and 46 had GRFs that remained unchanged.

 

CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

 

A caregiver placebo effect was common in the evaluation of patient response to treatment for osteoarthritis by both pet owners and veterinarians. Force platform gait analysis was an unbiased outcome measure for dogs with lameness from osteoarthritis. A caregiver placebo effect should be considered when interpreting owner and veterinary reports of patient response to treatment.

 

Comment in

 

• Identifying appropriate effect measures for analgesic therapies in companion animals. [J Vet Intern Med. 2013]

 

• Caregiver placebo effects. [J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2013]

 

• Placebo effects in the caregiver assessment of lameness. [J Vet Intern Med. 2013]

 

 

 

 

From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23113523

 

 

 

This if taken in conjunction with, the normal cyclical effect of osteoarthritis pains regression to the mean, which basically means that many symptoms will come and go in an apparently random fashion if recorded in an objective way - headaches, for example, tend to disappear without the aid of any treatment over time. People seek treatment when their symptoms are particularly severe, when they are at their respective "top". Regression to the mean, therefore, suggests that if symptoms are excessively severe this week, then next week they should be less severe simply by random fluctuations. If treatment is only sought when these symptoms are at their worst there will almost always be a coincidental recovery. This appears even if the treatment has no effectiveness whatsoever.

 

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Regression_to_the_mean)

 

 

we can see how people come to believe in ineffective treatments.

 

I’ve been led astray by these effects as likely all of us have but as my critical thinking skills improve it hopefully happens less than it once did.

Edited December 1, 2015 by sandymere

[planete 120]

I do not disagree with you or the studies you are quoting Sandymere. But 2 out of 5 is not to be sneezed at (by me anyway) as I find any improvement welcome and I want to avoid painkillers as much as possible due to other problems.

[skycat 6,174]

My lab who's nine sometimes has a problem walking but I give her cod liver oil capsiluses it's like giving a kid calpol she's soon back to normal , I was thinking arthritis as some days it's a real struggle but when she's had the capsiluses twenty minutes later she's fine

Might it not be that she suffers from joint soreness and muscle stiffness. Ligaments, tendons and muscles all lose elasticity with age, and I'm walking around like a cripple when I first get up, but the longer I move about the easier my legs move. Gentle exercise is essential for all us oldies.