WILF 47,637 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 The most logical solution would be to give little people big guns and big people little guns to level the playing field. Sorted. Where does that leave you mate? Lol 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,637 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I would also make it so that anyone who looked in the least bit like G.....G.....G.....Gareth Gates wasn't allowed to legally own.......so that's Born Hunter done for ! Lol lol 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,813 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) I agree completely, it's not infallible and almost every soldier that has to deal with real combat will tell you the plan always goes to shit but that's when being well drilled in how to make tactical decisions proves life saving. I'm not saying sparring makes you ready for fighting, what I'm saying is that if you are well drilled then when you find yourself in a REAL situation you will have a degree of confidence and familiarity that will decrease the probability of fear of the completely unknown and hesitation crippling you and then your nature taking over. Knowledge and experience through drills gives confidence, it's no replacement for real experience though. Put a complete novice in a hairy situation and watch him get destroyed through stupid decisions or a poor nature crippling him mentally. Put a well drilled amateur through it and watch him survive and learn. Put an experienced veteran through the same and watch him dominate. It all sounds lovely in theory......but as im sure you can accept.....a soldier is a soldier because he is MADE a certain way......the qualities he has you cant buy or learn or we could all be soldiers.........likewise a loaded gun in an otherwise shy/timid mans hand is like 8 pints of beer in a shy/timid mans stomach.....yes he will have more confidence.....he,s also a f****n liability ! I go back to a point Socks made about the threat itself.......ok so what if a 7 stone weakling has a big powerful guy looking over him ....does he pull his gun ? what if he had a 7 stone weakling waving a baseball bat at him ? does he pull his gun ?...... in reality he is in far more danger from the unarmed man but surely you wouldnt advocate pulling a gun on an unarmed man who just looked at you menacingly ? And this is a man who has no experience in a situation like this remember.......just a few quids worth of training. As far as training goes I'm not speculating or theorising, I'm talking about real life stuff that goes on in the US and other cultures that support a right to bear arms. Trained, drilled firearms users respond to violent situations better than Joe Bloggs who bought a gun because he felt scared and just stuck it in his drawer between can shooting sessions in the back yard....... There's an entire industry developed around this principle. To say that training and drills are anything other than good is ridiculous to me. I've said many times that it's not infallible, there are going to be people that still f**k up, but a lot less! If training a soldier how to deal with combat works then you can be sure training a civvy under a suitable course will do the same. If the civvy can't pass the course they don't get their license. That is after all my original suggestion.... Should people shoot people that look at them in a threatening way........ no, lol. Looking at someone in a threatening way and actually initiating a violent attack are not comparable. If someone looks at you in a threatening way that should just make you alert, armed or otherwise, when someone has already assaulted you and continues to advance on you after you have tried to flee, drawn your firearm, given clear warning, then that IS a serious threat. We can argue about this all day in any number of simplified examples, I think that people should be able to use lethal force to defend themselves from a violent attack, you think that they should just go toe to toe and hope for the best. Back to a previous comment, I'm not a handful at all, I keep my nose very clean and have no desire to prove my male dominance with violence over anybody. I believe that I should be allowed to live my life in peace and with the right to do what I consider necessary to maintain that freedom. Edited November 13, 2015 by Born Hunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 In my old town last year there was a spate of robberies, they were targeting mums getting ready for school run......the people involved were kicking in the front doors with the women still in the house at 8am !!! It's not happening every day all over Britain but it does happen and if intruders coming into your home to do you harm while you are still there isn't a case for legal ownership and use for defence of a firearm then I dont know what is. It's never going to be you......until it is you !! Even if the laws regarding hand guns went back to how they were wilf, I very much doubt those women would be seeking permits, doing the training etc & arming themselves........we don't do it in the uk, it's not part of our culture.......Gun enthusiasts & criminals use guns in the uk...... That's not coming from an anti gun stance, I was a gun owner for 15 years........it's just fact, we are not culturally the same as the U.S & I think that's a good thing. Yes shit happens, I've been a victim of random violence in broad daylight myself, but I never dreamed of arming myself, I don't think it's the answer tbh...........but I do agree we should have more right to defend our properties when invaded..... 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,813 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I would also make it so that anyone who looked in the least bit like G.....G.....G.....Gareth Gates wasn't allowed to legally own.......so that's Born Hunter done for ! Lol lol I hope you are aware that due to my c cccc cccc ccccrrrazy unhinged nature as a gun owner I am now going to kill you in an uncontrollable fit of rage! I'll probably kill a handful of bystanders too but it'll be justified because I felt threatened by you. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,813 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 In my old town last year there was a spate of robberies, they were targeting mums getting ready for school run......the people involved were kicking in the front doors with the women still in the house at 8am !!! It's not happening every day all over Britain but it does happen and if intruders coming into your home to do you harm while you are still there isn't a case for legal ownership and use for defence of a firearm then I dont know what is. It's never going to be you......until it is you !! Even if the laws regarding hand guns went back to how they were wilf, I very much doubt those women would be seeking permits, doing the training etc & arming themselves........we don't do it in the uk, it's not part of our culture.......Gun enthusiasts & criminals use guns in the uk...... That's not coming from an anti gun stance, I was a gun owner for 15 years........it's just fact, we are not culturally the same as the U.S & I think that's a good thing. Yes shit happens, I've been a victim of random violence in broad daylight myself, but I never dreamed of arming myself, I don't think it's the answer tbh...........but I do agree we should have more right to defend our properties when invaded..... Nail on head mate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,470 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 That's very true mate, dead is still dead. I think the point is, if a big lad like you was inclined to do violence to a much smaller and weaker bloke then you know you probably could with very little risk to yourself. However, if you knew he may be armed and you may get shot then 2 things can happen: You leave him alone Or You take a gun yourself Either way, there's still a pretty good chance you won't walk away. That there has totally levelled the playing field in comparison to the first scenario. So whats your thoughts on the big threatening chap whos looking menacing.....and the 7 stone weakling waving a bat around then Wilf ?........which one should you be allowed to point a gun at one the other or both ? LOL, in my world people should be allowed to defend themselves from violent attack, clearly in yours people should just take the pasting and hope it doesn't put them in a serious state..... 'Bill' had every opportunity to behave like a civilised human and clear sign of the consequences of not doing so. I can't believe anybody would see the actions I outlined as anything other than legitimate self defence. We quite profoundly disagree. Maybe thats because in my world ( as you say ) that scenario is not such an unusual event.......would i like to see guns pulled every time such a situation arises on an East London street.....no thanks personally i like it just the way it is id rather Ben got ironed out than Bill got shot dead......but then i never have been into all that dying caper ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mackem 27,562 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 The most logical solution would be to give little people big guns and big people little guns to level the playing field. Sorted. God made man,samuel colt made all men equal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waz 4,274 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Wondering if the gun law was relaxed in France, the numbers would be much different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neems 2,406 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Wondering if the gun law was relaxed in France, the numbers would be much different. it certainly wouldn't have made it any higher. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,470 Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 If training a soldier how to deal with combat works then you can be sure training a civvy under a suitable course will do the same. If the civvy can't pass the course they don't get their license. That is after all my original suggestion.... If someone looks at you in a threatening way that should just make you alert, armed or otherwise, when someone has already assaulted you and continues to advance on you after you have tried to flee, drawn your firearm, given clear warning, then that IS a serious threat. Top paragraph.......ok so who is in a more terrifying situation.......a careful selected and expertly trained soldier or an everyday Joe who passed a training course ?......we,re going round in circles here but im of the opinion you cant put in what nature left out,you clearly think instinct can be trained into people. Bottom paragraph.....you,ve changed the question,nobody has been assaulted one person was waving a bat in a threatening manner the other was " looking " in a threatening manner who is the more dangerous threat ( who does he pull his gun on ) Yes these are simplified examples......but still everyday scenarios people walking around armed could easily face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,637 Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 When I was a kid the rule was, if someone is bigger than you and they look like they want to do you some harm then pick something up and batter them with it. Nature don't even come into it. Hurting the other bloke so he can't hurt you and won't get up again is all that matters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tb25 4,627 Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 I carry a knife every day and wouldn't even think of drawing it in an argument ... I just don't see the logic that because somebody carries a gun he will use it in anger ...... I know you live in isolation and dont get to see much of real life but you are a sensible responsible chap......apparently. Im not......and i dont live in seclusion.....so should i carry a knife ?...... its probably safer for all concerned if i dont good post.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,637 Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) It's a proven fact that legally being able to carry a concealed weapon reduces violent assault on people......when they did away with it in Washingron the figures of violent assault type crime went through the roof. When they reversed that law they dropped through the floor. Public ranges would, IMHO, become widespread and people would go there to practice. After a while it becomes automatic responses......very much like our current armed security people. If folk are the type to just kill folk then there are plenty of things they can do that with already Edited November 15, 2015 by WILF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neems 2,406 Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 As we've recently found out bad people can get very serious hardware into countries with strict gun control,we can't even carry a tazer. stoppa red and a whistle work just as well anyway Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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