Accip74 7,112 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) A bit frightening to think that people actually think about arming themselves.....do we live in that type of society yet?You have to keep in mind that middle aged Mrs Middle America ain't going to do her weekly shop at Walmart with a .38 special in her glove compartment because she is so keen to up hold her right to bear arms. She does it out of fear. I don't think Mrs Middle England feels like that yet & long may it continue...... Edited November 12, 2015 by Accip74 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unlacedgecko 1,466 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 A bit frightening to think that people actually think about arming themselves.....do we live in that type of society yet?You have to keep in mind that middle aged Mrs Middle America ain't going to do her weekly shop at Walmart with a .38 special in her glove compartment because she is so keen to up hold her right to bear arms. She does it out of fear.I don't think Mrs Middle England feels like that yet & long may it continue...... I think that depends on where Mrs Middle America does her weekly shopping. Before we were married my wife lived in Peckham. I felt more comfortable in Helmand Province that I did visiting her late at night. At least in Helmand I had a gun and the legal right to use it in self defence... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) A bit frightening to think that people actually think about arming themselves.....do we live in that type of society yet?You have to keep in mind that middle aged Mrs Middle America ain't going to do her weekly shop at Walmart with a .38 special in her glove compartment because she is so keen to up hold her right to bear arms. She does it out of fear.I don't think Mrs Middle England feels like that yet & long may it continue...... I think that depends on where Mrs Middle America does her weekly shopping.Before we were married my wife lived in Peckham. I felt more comfortable in Helmand Province that I did visiting her late at night. At least in Helmand I had a gun and the legal right to use it in self defence... Well of course mate, it's a generalisation, that's why I used the word 'Middle', I've worked in Peckam......it ain't middle England is it? Thank fcuk! Haha..... But generally I don't personally know anyone who feels threatened by gun crime in the uk..... I think it's a cultural thing as well.......our mothers don't feel the need to carry hand guns, regardless of the threat of crime......it's not in their mind set..... Edited November 12, 2015 by Accip74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unlacedgecko 1,466 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 A bit frightening to think that people actually think about arming themselves.....do we live in that type of society yet?You have to keep in mind that middle aged Mrs Middle America ain't going to do her weekly shop at Walmart with a .38 special in her glove compartment because she is so keen to up hold her right to bear arms. She does it out of fear.I don't think Mrs Middle England feels like that yet & long may it continue...... I think that depends on where Mrs Middle America does her weekly shopping.Before we were married my wife lived in Peckham. I felt more comfortable in Helmand Province that I did visiting her late at night. At least in Helmand I had a gun and the legal right to use it in self defence... Well of course mate, it's a generalisation, that's why I used the word 'Middle', I've worked in Peckam......it ain't middle England is it? Thank fcuk! Haha.....But generally I don't personally know anyone who feels threatened by gun crime in the uk..... True. But I know plenty who feel threaten by knife crime. Surely a gun would solve that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) A bit frightening to think that people actually think about arming themselves.....do we live in that type of society yet?You have to keep in mind that middle aged Mrs Middle America ain't going to do her weekly shop at Walmart with a .38 special in her glove compartment because she is so keen to up hold her right to bear arms. She does it out of fear.I don't think Mrs Middle England feels like that yet & long may it continue...... I think that depends on where Mrs Middle America does her weekly shopping.Before we were married my wife lived in Peckham. I felt more comfortable in Helmand Province that I did visiting her late at night. At least in Helmand I had a gun and the legal right to use it in self defence... Well of course mate, it's a generalisation, that's why I used the word 'Middle', I've worked in Peckam......it ain't middle England is it? Thank fcuk! Haha.....But generally I don't personally know anyone who feels threatened by gun crime in the uk..... True. But I know plenty who feel threaten by knife crime. Surely a gun would solve that?That's unfortunate mate......I still don't know anyone who really feels threatened by knifes, they just don't move in those circles......& that includes my brother & best mate who live in central london, that don't mean they are not at risk though.... In answer to your question .........I really don't think it would solve it, the threat would still be there.......I can understand feeling safer with a gun. Edited November 12, 2015 by Accip74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,637 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 In my old town last year there was a spate of robberies, they were targeting mums getting ready for school run......the people involved were kicking in the front doors with the women still in the house at 8am !!! It's not happening every day all over Britain but it does happen and if intruders coming into your home to do you harm while you are still there isn't a case for legal ownership and use for defence of a firearm then I dont know what is. It's never going to be you......until it is you !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,470 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm neither for or against the idea as it won't ever happen here, but here's a little anecdote from about 15 years ago. I was in a a diner in South Carolina and a policeman sat next to me at the counter and we got chatting as we ate breakfast. He asked if it was really true that we couldn't carry handguns in the UK. When I confirmed it, his exact words were "Wow. I couldn't live like that. That means you could get kicked to death on your way home one night. That could never happen to me." Those words for right or wrong stuck in my head. No he couldnt get kicked to death he could just get shot and killed but hey ho he,s still dead who,s counting right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,470 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Too my knowledge in that Bill and Ben scenario any tactician would know, through 'training', to create space to give himself thinking time if the threat does escalate. They'd also know to leave at any possible time rather than engaging that threat. The only time Ben should pull the trigger is if his life is in immediate danger. Bill should never have been given the chance to wallop Ben if Ben acted sensibly.Whats acting sensibly......running down the road ?.......Bill is a bag snatcher by trade what if he,s a faster runner than Ben ?......the same space Ben has been trained to create Bill has been trained to close......how does he know if his lifes in immediate danger ? Ok then scene 2......Bill has Ben pinned up against the wall. Ben......" Look mate are you carrying a knife " Bill...." Why you asking " Ben " I need to know if i should take out my firearm and unleash deadly force " not quite gonna work is it. First off, I'm not a trained firearms instructor so just spitting out what I have learnt... If I was Ben, pistol drawn, making space, giving clear warning and bill advanced on me I'd shoot him the second he crossed the line at which I was at risk of not being able to remain safe. A man that attacks an armed citizen when he has the clear option of walking away is a very dangerous man. Scenario 2, lol. Ben attacked by surprise and pinned against a wall.... then it's down to Ben to determine how serious the threat is. So you feel the moment Bill looks like he,s going to " shove " Ben.........Ben should shoot him ! .........I tell you what,im not f***ing with you Bornhunter you sound like a serious handful Scenario 2..........Its down to Ben to use his 20 quids worth of fight or flight response training you mean. Stone me the power your happy to put into everyday folks hands i should make chief inspector in no time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,637 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm neither for or against the idea as it won't ever happen here, but here's a little anecdote from about 15 years ago. I was in a a diner in South Carolina and a policeman sat next to me at the counter and we got chatting as we ate breakfast. He asked if it was really true that we couldn't carry handguns in the UK. When I confirmed it, his exact words were "Wow. I couldn't live like that. That means you could get kicked to death on your way home one night. That could never happen to me." Those words for right or wrong stuck in my head. No he couldnt get kicked to death he could just get shot and killed but hey ho he,s still dead who,s counting right. I'm neither for or against the idea as it won't ever happen here, but here's a little anecdote from about 15 years ago. I was in a a diner in South Carolina and a policeman sat next to me at the counter and we got chatting as we ate breakfast. He asked if it was really true that we couldn't carry handguns in the UK. When I confirmed it, his exact words were "Wow. I couldn't live like that. That means you could get kicked to death on your way home one night. That could never happen to me." Those words for right or wrong stuck in my head. No he couldnt get kicked to death he could just get shot and killed but hey ho he,s still dead who,s counting right. That's very true mate, dead is still dead. I think the point is, if a big lad like you was inclined to do violence to a much smaller and weaker bloke then you know you probably could with very little risk to yourself. However, if you knew he may be armed and you may get shot then 2 things can happen: You leave him alone Or You take a gun yourself Either way, there's still a pretty good chance you won't walk away. That there has totally levelled the playing field in comparison to the first scenario. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,470 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I carry a knife every day and wouldn't even think of drawing it in an argument ... I just don't see the logic that because somebody carries a gun he will use it in anger ......I know you live in isolation and dont get to see much of real life but you are a sensible responsible chap......apparently. Im not......and i dont live in seclusion.....so should i carry a knife ?...... its probably safer for all concerned if i dont Gnash I doubt if you would end up stabbing somebody to death if you happened to have a knife in your pocket and you got into an argument ..... No perhaps just a punctured lung or stab to the thigh would suffice.......cant be as a bad as a smack in the earhole eh. Mate if your a sound mentally normal guy you wouldn't even contemplate pulling out a knife the same as somebody wouldn't draw a gun ..... Socks have you ever lost your rag ?.....ever overeacted? Heres a scenario you tell me......Bill is a big strong guy but a bit of a wanker.......Ben is a little bloke very sensible and responsible. Both walking towards each other in a busy street they accidentally clip shoulders.....Bill being a bit of an arsehole says " watch where your going you daft c**t "......Ben says " excuse me dont talk to me like that ".....and keeps walking.......Bill being the wanker he is wont let it lie and go,s in pursuit and starts shoving Ben.......Ben feeling in immediately danger from a bigger more aggressive man pulls a gun out of his holster.........Bill being a bit slippery says " sorry mate no offence theres no need for that ".......points over the road and says " let me buy you a pint in that pub as an apology "........Ben looking across the road suddenly has the gun wrenched out of his hand with a now totally off his head Bill screaming and shouting waving a gun around creating panic in the streets. A perfectly ordinary everyday scene has now turned into Starsky & Hutch.......yet the gun owner was a " sound mentally normal guy " as you say. Ben: (with weapon drawn,made ready with the safety off and aimed at Bill) stay back or I'll shoot. Bill: WOW look over there! *Ben looks away while Bill grabs the gun out of his hands* Bill: Haha,another fool falls for my cunning plan. You don't practice krav maga by any chance do you gnasher? No your just taking this far too seriously now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waz 4,274 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 alcohol is part and parcel of society and families in france spain Italy etc and you don't see kids rolling around the floor drunk in these countries .... its because its part of their culture and grow up with it ...its normal ....... Well, seen through my own eyes, alcoholism is frowned upon in England, whereas in France its quite normal & id say a lot more common. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 If the UK had stand your ground laws like in some states in America Ronnie Pickering could have legally got a bullet in his face at the end of that video. I'm not sure if that's a positive or negative though 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,813 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 So you feel the moment Bill looks like he,s going to " shove " Ben.........Ben should shoot him ! .........I tell you what,im not f***ing with you Bornhunter you sound like a serious handful Scenario 2..........Its down to Ben to use his 20 quids worth of fight or flight response training you mean. Stone me the power your happy to put into everyday folks hands i should make chief inspector in no time LOL, in my world people should be allowed to defend themselves from violent attack, clearly in yours people should just take the pasting and hope it doesn't put them in a serious state..... 'Bill' had every opportunity to behave like a civilised human and clear sign of the consequences of not doing so. I can't believe anybody would see the actions I outlined as anything other than legitimate self defence. We quite profoundly disagree. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,470 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) I agree completely, it's not infallible and almost every soldier that has to deal with real combat will tell you the plan always goes to shit but that's when being well drilled in how to make tactical decisions proves life saving. I'm not saying sparring makes you ready for fighting, what I'm saying is that if you are well drilled then when you find yourself in a REAL situation you will have a degree of confidence and familiarity that will decrease the probability of fear of the completely unknown and hesitation crippling you and then your nature taking over. Knowledge and experience through drills gives confidence, it's no replacement for real experience though. Put a complete novice in a hairy situation and watch him get destroyed through stupid decisions or a poor nature crippling him mentally. Put a well drilled amateur through it and watch him survive and learn. Put an experienced veteran through the same and watch him dominate. It all sounds lovely in theory......but as im sure you can accept.....a soldier is a soldier because he is MADE a certain way......the qualities he has you cant buy or learn or we could all be soldiers.........likewise a loaded gun in an otherwise shy/timid mans hand is like 8 pints of beer in a shy/timid mans stomach.....yes he will have more confidence.....he,s also a f****n liability ! I go back to a point Socks made about the threat itself.......ok so what if a 7 stone weakling has a big powerful guy looking over him ....does he pull his gun ? what if he had a 7 stone weakling waving a baseball bat at him ? does he pull his gun ?...... in reality he is in far more danger from the unarmed man but surely you wouldnt advocate pulling a gun on an unarmed man who just looked at you menacingly ? And this is a man who has no experience in a situation like this remember.......just a few quids worth of training. Edited November 13, 2015 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 The most logical solution would be to give little people big guns and big people little guns to level the playing field. Sorted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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