So Who Wants To Release Wolves Back In The Countryside ?

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

 

Just checked timber wolves are around 110lb so a big dog considering it will be in good condition. Ive never seen a 110lb bullx but judging from the 80lbish ones ive seen nothing on planet earth around a similar size would have an easy time with 110lb bullx and a smaller wolf say 70lb wouldnt stand a chance.

And 90% of the 80lb bull crosses out there can't even catch and kill an 18lb fox single handed.

90%? Hmm

[Saluki246 1,053]

Dr. M. Dawson,Paleontologist ♀ 1977, June 28 Prey-testing agonistic charge Ellesmere Island,Nunavut, Canada Doing field work when they were approached by a pack of six wolves. They tried to drive them off by shouting, waving, and throwing clods of frozen dirt. The wolves were not deterred, and began to circle. The lead wolf leaped at Dawson's face, but Dawson pushed back with her arms and leaned backwards, pushing the wolf to the ground before it could bite her, and the wolves departed, but the strike was close enough for saliva from the wolf's flews to be left on her cheek. Munthe and Hutchinson (1978) interpreted the attack as testing of unfamiliar prey, but noted they didn't know if the wolves had encountered people before. McNay notes that the attack resembled others by wolves which had been fed.

did a bit of research and found this example of wolf incident on ellesmere island

 

 

 

 

 

beast :

and in places like alaska and siberia there are wolves which have never seen a man and yet more and more people are nowadays active in these areas. guess what? there are nowadays more and more wolf attacks/incidents.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, how do you, explain elesmere island then sir ?? As, their are wolves on their, that have also never seen man, but the reserchers that have studied them their, have never been attacked..?

 

 

consider two points, both of which i have touched upon. first, are the prey species running to very low numbers, thus causing the wolves to explore different food sources? secondly, have the wolves been food- habituated to humans, in other words have they been finding human-related food supplies such as livestock or garbage dumps or pets, which cause them to associate humans with food?

 

 

Really ....

 

[Saluki246 1,053]

Below, is a wolf hunter, that knows a lot about them, if you listen to what he says, its interesting..

 

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

Them ellesmer island wolves are just weighing the journos up to my eyes, you can imagine the thought process "is this an easy meal? Hmm there quite big and confident, so no probably not but ill bare them in mind for the future" if that chopper had dropped a kid off or someone who shit themselves and acted like prey I reckon theyd be nowt but bones in a short time.

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

Anyway forget all this talk of bullx or kangals if they release wolves over here you need to get yourself a ben cochrum! Google him, attacked by a pack shot 7 and clubbed another 4 to death with the butt of his rifle when the bullets ran out, one tough SOB and one desperate pack of wolves

[beast 1,884]

 

Dr. M. Dawson,Paleontologist ♀ 1977, June 28 Prey-testing agonistic charge Ellesmere Island,Nunavut, Canada Doing field work when they were approached by a pack of six wolves. They tried to drive them off by shouting, waving, and throwing clods of frozen dirt. The wolves were not deterred, and began to circle. The lead wolf leaped at Dawson's face, but Dawson pushed back with her arms and leaned backwards, pushing the wolf to the ground before it could bite her, and the wolves departed, but the strike was close enough for saliva from the wolf's flews to be left on her cheek. Munthe and Hutchinson (1978) interpreted the attack as testing of unfamiliar prey, but noted they didn't know if the wolves had encountered people before. McNay notes that the attack resembled others by wolves which had been fed.

did a bit of research and found this example of wolf incident on ellesmere island

 

 

 

 

 

beast :

and in places like alaska and siberia there are wolves which have never seen a man and yet more and more people are nowadays active in these areas. guess what? there are nowadays more and more wolf attacks/incidents.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, how do you, explain elesmere island then sir ?? As, their are wolves on their, that have also never seen man, but the reserchers that have studied them their, have never been attacked..?

 

 

consider two points, both of which i have touched upon. first, are the prey species running to very low numbers, thus causing the wolves to explore different food sources? secondly, have the wolves been food- habituated to humans, in other words have they been finding human-related food supplies such as livestock or garbage dumps or pets, which cause them to associate humans with food?

 

 

Really ....

 

 

thanks for the film saluki, very nice footage. but what is your point, does that film somehow answer my questions above? if the prey had run thin on the ground, and that cameraman had previously been feeding those wolves, do you think the pictures would still be the same? i'm not trying to have a row, just curious how you see things differently to me

[beast 1,884]

Below, is a wolf hunter, that knows a lot about them, if you listen to what he says, its interesting..

 

 

and if you read my previous post, you will see that the film supports it; wolves fear man when they have been hunted, and the chap saying that they are not dangerous is a hunter - of course they arent going to go after him, they are educated wolves! this thing about benign wolves is tosh, they learn to be scared. the reason man eradicated wolves wherever possible wasnt just because they competed for prey, or killed his livestock, it is because wolves ate his children.

[Saluki246 1,053]

 

 

Dr. M. Dawson,Paleontologist ♀ 1977, June 28 Prey-testing agonistic charge Ellesmere Island,Nunavut, Canada Doing field work when they were approached by a pack of six wolves. They tried to drive them off by shouting, waving, and throwing clods of frozen dirt. The wolves were not deterred, and began to circle. The lead wolf leaped at Dawson's face, but Dawson pushed back with her arms and leaned backwards, pushing the wolf to the ground before it could bite her, and the wolves departed, but the strike was close enough for saliva from the wolf's flews to be left on her cheek. Munthe and Hutchinson (1978) interpreted the attack as testing of unfamiliar prey, but noted they didn't know if the wolves had encountered people before. McNay notes that the attack resembled others by wolves which had been fed.

did a bit of research and found this example of wolf incident on ellesmere island

 

 

 

 

 

beast :

and in places like alaska and siberia there are wolves which have never seen a man and yet more and more people are nowadays active in these areas. guess what? there are nowadays more and more wolf attacks/incidents.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, how do you, explain elesmere island then sir ?? As, their are wolves on their, that have also never seen man, but the reserchers that have studied them their, have never been attacked..?

 

 

consider two points, both of which i have touched upon. first, are the prey species running to very low numbers, thus causing the wolves to explore different food sources? secondly, have the wolves been food- habituated to humans, in other words have they been finding human-related food supplies such as livestock or garbage dumps or pets, which cause them to associate humans with food?

 

 

Really ....

 

 

thanks for the film saluki, very nice footage. but what is your point, does that film somehow answer my questions above? if the prey had run thin on the ground, and that cameraman had previously been feeding those wolves, do you think the pictures would still be the same? i'm not trying to have a row, just curious how you see things differently to me

 

 

 

 

Below, is a wolf hunter, that knows a lot about them, if you listen to what he says, its interesting..

 

 

and if you read my previous post, you will see that the film supports it; wolves fear man when they have been hunted, and the chap saying that they are not dangerous is a hunter - of course they arent going to go after him, they are educated wolves! this thing about benign wolves is tosh, they learn to be scared. the reason man eradicated wolves wherever possible wasnt just because they competed for prey, or killed his livestock, it is because wolves ate his children.

 

 

No row here.Wolves om elesmere are not to be fed, strict rule for that.!

 

As for the hunter. I have lived in parts of turkey, where wolves have not seen man, they acted curious, but not in any agressive way.

Only time i heard, they atacked, was when some local vilegers, would go down into towns on cold winters, to get food and supplies and loose their way in blizzards in the winter and get weak. Wolves, would watch them and attack them when they would be exuasted. Some lived to tell the tale, others did not. Yes, it does snow hard in turkey, for those who think it does not, especially in the higher grounds, maountains.

Going back to the oroginal quetion, if certain walves, that feared man, were introduced, then it would be fine, but wolves that have no fear of man, would be a bit dodgy, its hard to do, but i think, if done right, would be good to see them, but in the real world, would take a lot of hard work.

[unlacedgecko 1,466]

 

 

 

Dr. M. Dawson,Paleontologist ♀ 1977, June 28 Prey-testing agonistic charge Ellesmere Island,Nunavut, Canada Doing field work when they were approached by a pack of six wolves. They tried to drive them off by shouting, waving, and throwing clods of frozen dirt. The wolves were not deterred, and began to circle. The lead wolf leaped at Dawson's face, but Dawson pushed back with her arms and leaned backwards, pushing the wolf to the ground before it could bite her, and the wolves departed, but the strike was close enough for saliva from the wolf's flews to be left on her cheek. Munthe and Hutchinson (1978) interpreted the attack as testing of unfamiliar prey, but noted they didn't know if the wolves had encountered people before. McNay notes that the attack resembled others by wolves which had been fed.

did a bit of research and found this example of wolf incident on ellesmere island

 

 

 

beast :

and in places like alaska and siberia there are wolves which have never seen a man and yet more and more people are nowadays active in these areas. guess what? there are nowadays more and more wolf attacks/incidents.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

So, how do you, explain elesmere island then sir ?? As, their are wolves on their, that have also never seen man, but the reserchers that have studied them their, have never been attacked..?

 

consider two points, both of which i have touched upon. first, are the prey species running to very low numbers, thus causing the wolves to explore different food sources? secondly, have the wolves been food- habituated to humans, in other words have they been finding human-related food supplies such as livestock or garbage dumps or pets, which cause them to associate humans with food?

Really ....

 

thanks for the film saluki, very nice footage. but what is your point, does that film somehow answer my questions above? if the prey had run thin on the ground, and that cameraman had previously been feeding those wolves, do you think the pictures would still be the same? i'm not trying to have a row, just curious how you see things differently to me

 

 

Below, is a wolf hunter, that knows a lot about them, if you listen to what he says, its interesting..

 

 

and if you read my previous post, you will see that the film supports it; wolves fear man when they have been hunted, and the chap saying that they are not dangerous is a hunter - of course they arent going to go after him, they are educated wolves! this thing about benign wolves is tosh, they learn to be scared. the reason man eradicated wolves wherever possible wasnt just because they competed for prey, or killed his livestock, it is because wolves ate his children.

No row here.Wolves om elesmere are not to be fed, strict rule for that.!

 

As for the hunter. I have lived in parts of turkey, where wolves have not seen man, they acted curious, but not in any agressive way.

Only time i heard, they atacked, was when some local vilegers, would go down into towns on cold winters, to get food and supplies and loose their way in blizzards in the winter and get weak. Wolves, would watch them and attack them when they would be exuasted. Some lived to tell the tale, others did not. Yes, it does snow hard in turkey, for those who think it does not, especially in the higher grounds, maountains.

Going back to the oroginal quetion, if certain walves, that feared man, were introduced, then it would be fine, but wolves that have no fear of man, would be a bit dodgy, its hard to do, but i think, if done right, would be good to see them, but in the real world, would take a lot of hard work.

It would take a lot of work, and a lot of shooting of wolves. Unfortunately it is the latter which will prove the problem. Any reintroduced predator will be protected legally in such a way as to make the current badger state of affairs look like open season. Read the comments on some 'rewinding' page to gain an insight into these peoples' mentality...

[Saluki246 1,053]

Very interesting read below, about possible reintroduction in ireland, makes a lot of good scense and since reading it, it seems it would not be fair on the wolf itself to be re-introduced..

 

http://www.irelandswildlife.com/grey-wolf-re-introduction-ireland/

[Silversnake 1,099]

I believe wolves can get along with humans without a problem until they get hungry. Once there is a shortage of prey or there is an easier option eg sheep, pets,etc all bets are off. I also think that is why protection style dogs like maremma and kangols can be an effective deterrent. I don't believe we have come close to producing a dog with the survival capabilities of the wolf. Even the fastest, strongest and smartest dogs ever developed have not been tested as hard as the wild wolf. Imagine the best dog you have ever seen having to live in inhospitable areas to avoid humans, catch enough food for itself, constantly battle for supremacy and all the while avoid or endure injuries as there is no vet to patch them up. I cannot fathom the blend of coat, speed, strength, wind, brains,audacity and luck required to become alpha male in these circumstances, but I do believe that no domestic dog is tempered in a hotter furnace. Sure we can produce a faster dog or a 'gamer' dog or many other specialised dogs, but in some ways I believe when man domesticated wolves however many thousand years ago we have never improved that creature from what it was.

[Saluki246 1,053]

I believe wolves can get along with humans without a problem until they get hungry. Once there is a shortage of prey or there is an easier option eg sheep, pets,etc all bets are off. I also think that is why protection style dogs like maremma and kangols can be an effective deterrent. I don't believe we have come close to producing a dog with the survival capabilities of the wolf. Even the fastest, strongest and smartest dogs ever developed have not been tested as hard as the wild wolf. Imagine the best dog you have ever seen having to live in inhospitable areas to avoid humans, catch enough food for itself, constantly battle for supremacy and all the while avoid or endure injuries as there is no vet to patch them up. I cannot fathom the blend of coat, speed, strength, wind, brains,audacity and luck required to become alpha male in these circumstances, but I do believe that no domestic dog is tempered in a hotter furnace. Sure we can produce a faster dog or a 'gamer' dog or many other specialised dogs, but in some ways I believe when man domesticated wolves however many thousand years ago we have never improved that creature from what it was.

 

Good post.

[Brewman 1,192]

I believe wolves can get along with humans without a problem until they get hungry. Once there is a shortage of prey or there is an easier option eg sheep, pets,etc all bets are off. I also think that is why protection style dogs like maremma and kangols can be an effective deterrent. I don't believe we have come close to producing a dog with the survival capabilities of the wolf. Even the fastest, strongest and smartest dogs ever developed have not been tested as hard as the wild wolf. Imagine the best dog you have ever seen having to live in inhospitable areas to avoid humans, catch enough food for itself, constantly battle for supremacy and all the while avoid or endure injuries as there is no vet to patch them up. I cannot fathom the blend of coat, speed, strength, wind, brains,audacity and luck required to become alpha male in these circumstances, but I do believe that no domestic dog is tempered in a hotter furnace. Sure we can produce a faster dog or a 'gamer' dog or many other specialised dogs, but in some ways I believe when man domesticated wolves however many thousand years ago we have never improved that creature from what it was.

The only way you'll get dogs that can take on wolves or at least be half useful is to cross them with wolves and the offspring with wolves again. It's like what man did originally only in reverse so nearly going full circle.

We didn't want wolves the way they were so they were diluted to suit our needs and we couldn't reverse that without introducing wolves into the picture.

I wonder if you could use captive bred and trained wolves to take on wild ones?

[kanny 20,611]

I believe wolves can get along with humans without a problem until they get hungry. Once there is a shortage of prey or there is an easier option eg sheep, pets,etc all bets are off. I also think that is why protection style dogs like maremma and kangols can be an effective deterrent. I don't believe we have come close to producing a dog with the survival capabilities of the wolf. Even the fastest, strongest and smartest dogs ever developed have not been tested as hard as the wild wolf. Imagine the best dog you have ever seen having to live in inhospitable areas to avoid humans, catch enough food for itself, constantly battle for supremacy and all the while avoid or endure injuries as there is no vet to patch them up. I cannot fathom the blend of coat, speed, strength, wind, brains,audacity and luck required to become alpha male in these circumstances, but I do believe that no domestic dog is tempered in a hotter furnace. Sure we can produce a faster dog or a 'gamer' dog or many other specialised dogs, but in some ways I believe when man domesticated wolves however many thousand years ago we have never improved that creature from what it was.

I read somewhere that in fact domestic dogs were bred from a now extinct strain of wolf...maybe goes some way to explain the difference between dog and modern wolves.

[beast 1,884]

 

 

 

Dr. M. Dawson,Paleontologist ♀ 1977, June 28 Prey-testing agonistic charge Ellesmere Island,Nunavut, Canada Doing field work when they were approached by a pack of six wolves. They tried to drive them off by shouting, waving, and throwing clods of frozen dirt. The wolves were not deterred, and began to circle. The lead wolf leaped at Dawson's face, but Dawson pushed back with her arms and leaned backwards, pushing the wolf to the ground before it could bite her, and the wolves departed, but the strike was close enough for saliva from the wolf's flews to be left on her cheek. Munthe and Hutchinson (1978) interpreted the attack as testing of unfamiliar prey, but noted they didn't know if the wolves had encountered people before. McNay notes that the attack resembled others by wolves which had been fed.

did a bit of research and found this example of wolf incident on ellesmere island

 

 

 

 

 

beast :

and in places like alaska and siberia there are wolves which have never seen a man and yet more and more people are nowadays active in these areas. guess what? there are nowadays more and more wolf attacks/incidents.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, how do you, explain elesmere island then sir ?? As, their are wolves on their, that have also never seen man, but the reserchers that have studied them their, have never been attacked..?

 

 

consider two points, both of which i have touched upon. first, are the prey species running to very low numbers, thus causing the wolves to explore different food sources? secondly, have the wolves been food- habituated to humans, in other words have they been finding human-related food supplies such as livestock or garbage dumps or pets, which cause them to associate humans with food?

 

 

Really ....

 

 

thanks for the film saluki, very nice footage. but what is your point, does that film somehow answer my questions above? if the prey had run thin on the ground, and that cameraman had previously been feeding those wolves, do you think the pictures would still be the same? i'm not trying to have a row, just curious how you see things differently to me

 

 

 

 

Below, is a wolf hunter, that knows a lot about them, if you listen to what he says, its interesting..

 

 

and if you read my previous post, you will see that the film supports it; wolves fear man when they have been hunted, and the chap saying that they are not dangerous is a hunter - of course they arent going to go after him, they are educated wolves! this thing about benign wolves is tosh, they learn to be scared. the reason man eradicated wolves wherever possible wasnt just because they competed for prey, or killed his livestock, it is because wolves ate his children.

 

 

No row here.Wolves om elesmere are not to be fed, strict rule for that.!

 

As for the hunter. I have lived in parts of turkey, where wolves have not seen man, they acted curious, but not in any agressive way.

Only time i heard, they atacked, was when some local vilegers, would go down into towns on cold winters, to get food and supplies and loose their way in blizzards in the winter and get weak. Wolves, would watch them and attack them when they would be exuasted. Some lived to tell the tale, others did not. Yes, it does snow hard in turkey, for those who think it does not, especially in the higher grounds, maountains.

Going back to the oroginal quetion, if certain walves, that feared man, were introduced, then it would be fine, but wolves that have no fear of man, would be a bit dodgy, its hard to do, but i think, if done right, would be good to see them, but in the real world, would take a lot of hard work.

 

thats interesting stuff saluki, got any more stories? did the wolves come into the villages or take domestic animals? did you ever have any encounters yourself? did they hunt wolves locally?