jessdale 416 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I was earning decent money in the steelworks for 17 years before being made redundant. I never did overtime, never wanted it, but some lads were getting paid £50k a year with overtime for doing very little work at all. Very little work. I wonder how many Chinese steelworkers are on £50k for doing nob all?. But lets blame the government anyway. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
antg 1,777 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Consett steel works closed in 1980 and its only just recovered from it. not a bad place now but the closing of the steel works totally devastated the area. Redcar will be the same if it ever does recover from this. mind Consett is a much cleaner place now. when the works was going it was dirty hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
riohog 5,714 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I wonder if things would have been different if we hadn't been in europe??? Some are saying that the government should bail the steel works out, but then others are saying if they aren't making a profit then it will be money down the pan. Anyones thoughts on this? as ive said before it is just not competative in the global market . .the days are finished when britain rules the world!!!. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
riohog 5,714 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 early 70,s i was on a oceanographic survey vessel . running from greenock up the west coast ,round the top to bergen an d stravanger in norway , tow out routes for rigs , .at that time , greenock ship yard john lithgow s yard were producing mainly war ships and refurbs fr foreghn navys , ,and a few rigs and explorstion vessels ,mind it was a hell hole in them days. but it employed thousands of men in the yards , the unions were very powerfull in those days , and had employers by the balls , the yards were busy ..but the unions /workforce knackered the job there were very heavy penalty clouses on time compleation of vessels ,and the unions /workfolrce would drag there feet on the job ,the owners were fkd there profits were going down the drain dayly !. so they had to give the workforce lots of overtime incentives to compleat the jobs on time .most still ran over the compleation dte , costing lithgows millions .eventually they didnt get any more contracts and hey ho closed. thousands of men out of work ..... whos falt was that?i guess tyne side and barrow were doing the same , although they survived a bit longer due to mod contracts. no ships to build so no need for steel . the writing was on the wall 40 years ago . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tatsblisters 9,978 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I dont think you can blame the present day steel crisis on the unions or the the workforce to be fair. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
riohog 5,714 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I dont think you can blame the present day steel crisis on the unions or the the workforce to be fair. welldo we blme it on the fairys ?they were the men producing steel and its uses .ive seen dozens of deep sea oil tankers tied up in loch strivern ,in the 70,s becouse they were so much overtime build , they jst were not needed .shipping companys jjst got there ships built elsewere on time germany .italy china ect with there steel!!.and still do today .we got greedy and paid the price Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't really beleive in nationalised industries at all but there is a good case to say that if they can iron £15 billion on a computer system that never worked and god knows how many billion on two aircraft carriers that we dont actually have the planes to fly off them.......then they cant really use the "money down the drain" excuse for not helping these people in some way. My god!!.....am I turning into a full blown socialist !! ?? Nah, that will never happen ! I wouldn't call for wholesale nationalisation but surely they could look at things on an individual basis and step in and back out as required? The capability and skills we'll loose if the industry goes from these shores are priceless, so what if we chuck a couple of billion quid "down the drain" to keep them. Take the current situation with Russia for instance. Yeah we currently got unlimited access to cheap Chinese steel, but who knows what the future holds. We could get into a situation quite easily where we were denied açcess to it. Then you can think about the way the big supermarkets work in this country. They move into an area where they kill off all the smaller local shops by undercutting them, then when they are the only kid left on the block up go the prices. This is part of a war of economy being played out over decades IMO, we should start waking up and looking after our house a bit better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't really beleive in nationalised industries at all but there is a good case to say that if they can iron £15 billion on a computer system that never worked and god knows how many billion on two aircraft carriers that we dont actually have the planes to fly off them.......then they cant really use the "money down the drain" excuse for not helping these people in some way. My god!!.....am I turning into a full blown socialist !! ?? Nah, that will never happen ! I wouldn't call for wholesale nationalisation but surely they could look at things on an individual basis and step in and back out as required? The capability and skills we'll loose if the industry goes from these shores are priceless, so what if we chuck a couple of billion quid "down the drain" to keep them. Take the current situation with Russia for instance. Yeah we currently got unlimited access to cheap Chinese steel, but who knows what the future holds. We could get into a situation quite easily where we were denied açcess to it. Then you can think about the way the big supermarkets work in this country. They move into an area where they kill off all the smaller local shops by undercutting them, then when they are the only kid left on the block up go the prices. This is part of a war of economy being played out over decades IMO. Couldn't agree more when you look at some of the things the Government wastes money on what's a couple of billion to save an industry and keeps lads in work? Letting these industries die will lead to whole generations in the areas effected stuck on the dole, just like when the mines and shipyards closed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,780 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Just thinking out loud here but couldn't the government simply offer financial incentives to business in areas that it is felt have a weak economy, often as a result of that area being dependant on an uncompetitive industry? I guess simply a department within the exchequer that looks at the countries economy on a local level and applies corporation tax cuts to encourage profitable industries to set up there.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Its not just about the market though Ben. Think of a gurkha with his knife. Now he'll invest a lot of time over the years keeping it sharp and clean and ready, yet he may never use it in anger. The point is its there and ready if needed. The more we start relying on other folk, the more we loose the ability to reign them in. Everything we loose to the likes of the Chinese and Russians strengthens them and weakens us at the same time. Its said commies lost the cold war, me I just think they've changed tack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,780 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Its not just about the market though Ben. Think of a gurkha with his knife. Now he'll invest a lot of time over the years keeping it sharp and clean and ready, yet he may never use it in anger. The point is its there and ready if needed. The more we start relying on other folk, the more we loose the ability to reign them in. Everything we loose to the likes of the Chinese and Russians strengthens them and weakens us at the same time. Its said commies lost the cold war, me I just think they've changed tack. I get that, I do. National security! But this is how I break the decision down for a strategic view, simply how valuable is keeping the skill in house and how much will it cost us to do so..... Certain self sufficiency's are worth their cost in terms of national security. I'm not going to try to tell you the right answers to these decisions, that's out of my depth, just breaking the problem down as I see it. Food production, energy production, raw material production, arms production etc etc etc. We can be 100% self sufficient and 2nd rate at everything and as a result have indirectly weakened our security or we can make some tough decisions based on the likelihood of having a particular production capability gap used against us internationally and play to our strengths...... Some things are more important than others. I could very easily be convinced that having a steel producing capability would be one...... My suggestion wasn't about national security really, just an economic improvement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,780 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Just another point on the national security aspect of keeping this production capability, we may have the skillset in house to produce steel now but we do not have the raw material, we still have to buy that on the global market. So even as things stand, a foreign power could still put pressure on our ability to produce steel. Looking at this a bit more closely, it's not likely that we are going to fall out with the Aussies or Brazil any time soon, so is it really a threat? But I just want to show that the problem is more complex. All this just reinforces my belief in hard power. We are a global economy these days and aggressive foreign states can harm us by threatening these production channels. We occupied Iran during WWII in a Anglo-Russian coalition for this exact reason. It's nothing new. I'm sure I'm very unpopular for that view! Edited October 22, 2015 by Born Hunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
riohog 5,714 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 every country plays on the international stage .that is the way it is . they all have to be c ompegative with there products , .the uk included if we arnt competative we are out !! simple as that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twobob 1,497 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 thats because we have to import it all the shut all,t pits tha no,s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
staffs riffraff 1,068 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 skip to just after 1h20 minutes she says it all about free tradeb ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVkTcGcPLW8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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