Jack Russell Kc Registered

[fat man 4,741]

So why do gundog men actually register them with the K.C. at all? What is the KC doing for working springer's? I hear of field trials but I don't know much about them. The working foot beagle is a totally different animal than the useless show beagle, etc.

 

The issue in the future will be that show stock blood gets infused with working stock through the back door and a few fibs told about working dogs breeding. There was a time about 25-30 years ago and before when working lakelands where rough and ready types and plenty about. Certain breeders infused KC show Welsh and Show Lakeland with short coupled backs, bendy tails, weak heads and little sense to the working strains, why is anyones guess but the coin is most probably the sole reason. Since then the good old lakey has been in decline and trying to find a decent working lakey or border is like trying to find a unicorn. Some say they exist but I would want to see one to believe it.....

 

Look at the state of the Border terrier today. No disrespect to Border owners/workers, but the breed is in decline as a worker for years. Fair play to those who stick with the breed, but a closed KC system of breeding has the breed screwed as workers as the rosette takes higher priority. The simple answer for a working dog owner would be to cross a good working border with a strain of Red Fell, Black Dog or Working Lakey to get the old renowned border/lakey of the past or a simple "crossbred working" dog. But breed standards and paperwork gets in the way of the true usefulness of the animal which is work. Then certain peoples idea of what work actually is varies bordering on the ridiculous as the extract below of Border working trails states. Hilarious stuff but detrimental to the breeds ability.

 

In an ideal world IF working dogs had no monetary value then work would be the sole reason to own such an animal.......

 

Earthdog trials[edit]

Border Terriers have earned more American Kennel Club (AKC) Earthdog titles than any other terrier. An AKC earthdog test is not true hunting, but an artificial, non-competitive, exercise in which terriers enter 9 in (23 cm) wide smooth wooden tunnels, buried under-ground, with one or more turns in order to bark or scratch at caged rats that are safely housed behind wooden bars. The tests are conducted to determine that instinctive traits are preserved and developed, as the breed originators intended for the dogs to their work. While earthdog tests are not a close approximation of hunting, they are popular in the U.S. and in some European countries because even over-large Kennel Club breeds can negotiate the tunnels with ease, dogs can come to no harm while working, and no digging is required. Since Border Terriers are "essentially working terriers", many Border Terrier owners consider it important to test and develop their dogs' instinct. These tests also provide great satisfaction for the dogs. The American Working Terrier Association (AWTA) does conduct "trials"; where the dogs instincts are tested, and then judged to determine a "Best of Breed" Earthdog. These trials are also run similar as described below.

The trialing has actually ruined the springer imo,have you noticed the size of springers in the last we will say 10 years,there not much bigger than your average terrier and would not last a good days rough shooting compared to the springer of old,big rugged and would still be thrshing the cover out after a hard days beating.

[stevo79 569]

Mate of mine takes his jack on the shoot, puts all the spaniels to shame.

[neil cooney 10,416]

They must have been bad springers Stevo, it's as simple as that.

[stevo79 569]

Or a really good jack

[Alli 923]

No. Not at all. A nice work like terrier is a bonus. Especially with no obvious KC influence. Some of the ugliest dogs I've had the pleasure of owning have been the best workers. I have owned real nice terriers too but the all "have to work" to stick around. I'm not interested in showing my dogs or rosettes or breed standards. Simple really, just work and I am quite particular what I put in to my terriers.

It's funny how the ugly ones that are good workers tend to grow on you and make me smile when I look at them.

Alli, I have seen your dogs posted on here before and I admired them as they were a nice stamp of worker. I just don't see what the kennel club has to offer in the world of the real working terrier?? Any benefits? None that I can think of anyway? Maybe I can be enlightened by others of such benefits?

Meant to add I never mentioned looks previously. Working ability or loss of it through kennel club influence is my concern.

i have no time for the KC clubs ruination of most breeds they get there hands on, ive a couple of ugly little critters in my kennels, and some fine looking ones and the lookers do the same as ugly ones, otherwise they wouldent be there. one of my best workers won over 30 championships including the N.W.T. And yes i dont think the KC can give any benefits to workability of terriers, but it is nice to dig to a smart looking dog bred from worker to worker thats producing true and smart.

[Lenmcharristar 9,761]

There's Ali ant Tyson both world champions and Ali says Tyson is too ugly to be champion, where Ali is the pretty champion. And how many agree with Ali being the greatest??

[Dawn B 212]

LOL!!
"We" dont mind bow legged dogs! Please dont include everyone in that statement, because dogs with deformed legs should not be bred on ANY level!! Some of them cant even bloody walk properly let alone work!!

Jees, Im stunned!!!

[marshman 7,757]

LOL!!

"We" dont mind bow legged dogs! Please dont include everyone in that statement, because dogs with deformed legs should not be bred on ANY level!! Some of them cant even bloody walk properly let alone work!!

 

Jees, Im stunned!!!

so you wouldn't breed from a decent grafter if it had bow legs then ?

[Dawn B 212]

Hi Marshman

No. I wouldnt breed from any animal that had a genetic deformity. These things get worse not better. They can skip generations and be a damn sight worse in the next one. Bowed legs are deformed bones due to irresponsible breeding. Nothing more. Yes Id work the dog if it were able, but Id not perpetuate the problem by pushing it into the next generation.

[marshman 7,757]

Hi Marshman

 

No. I wouldnt breed from any animal that had a genetic deformity. These things get worse not better. They can skip generations and be a damn sight worse in the next one. Bowed legs are deformed bones due to irresponsible breeding. Nothing more. Yes Id work the dog if it were able, but Id not perpetuate the problem by pushing it into the next generation.

thanks for an honest answer , got to say bow legs wouldn't bother me as long as the work is good . Each to their own I suppose !

[stevemac 434]

Jack Russell terriers have been registered in Australia since the 80s now days there are four distinct types two registered types the jack russell and the parson russell both two big in the chest to be able two successfully work a fox in Australia. then there are the two types own and regestered by guys that work there dogs the short leg longer type and the leggier type both with chests small enough to be able to work our foxes in the scratched rabbit warrens hollow logs and trees and rock heaps they like to live in. the show types were working types until owned by people that have no idea about what it takes to breed a working dog. now days the temperment is soft and all they are good for is pets in the garden with your old Aunt.

[Corkman 944]

LOL!!

"We" dont mind bow legged dogs! Please dont include everyone in that statement, because dogs with deformed legs should not be bred on ANY level!! Some of them cant even bloody walk properly let alone work!!

 

Jees, Im stunned!!!

 

Strange then how the K.C. promotes breeding of multiple deformed breeds of dog? Through fashionable trends and inbred breeding policies allowed for decades by the K.C. (all litters are registered so they know what is going on).

 

Dwarfism (bow legs) is promoted by the Kennel Club.......... Not breeding Dwarf dogs on any level would wipe out a few breeds of dogs. I kinda like some of them though?

 

I don't particularly like bow legged terriers but if I had a one that was a good worker then I wouldn't be parting with it.

 

Give me a bow legged worker than a straight legged waste of space any day.

 

Speaking of not breeding dogs on any level.

 

Most borders should not be bred so as they are supposed to be a "working" breed and most cannot work for the most part? Only breeding more crap.

 

If I owned a "working" border I would find a suitable fell to cross it with.

 

Then again I wouldn't be worried about paperwork or looks too much. Just working ability.

 

Had a few border/lakies years ago and there weren't bad and had straight legs too.............

[Dawn B 212]

Hi Corkman.

I think you are a little confused.

 

"Strange then how the K.C. promotes breeding of multiple deformed breeds of dog? Through fashionable trends and inbred breeding policies allowed for decades by the K.C. (all litters are registered so they know what is going on)."
No they dont at all. And, Im not sure you are aware that all the breeds that were considered "exaggerated" are subject to veterinary checks at every champ show (BOB winner) and if deemed unfit in any way are not allowed to compete and their award taken away. That is not the policy of an organisation who promotes unhealthy dogs.

"Dwarfism (bow legs) is promoted by the Kennel Club.......... Not breeding Dwarf dogs on any level would wipe out a few breeds of dogs. I kinda like some of them though?"

​Oh dear. Dwarfism has absolutely NOTHING to do with bow legs. Dwarfism in dogs is just that, the same as people. They dont have deformities, they are just very small. Dogs bred and born with bow legs have bones that are too short on one side, that will not grow like the other side, which is why they turn in. Its nothing at all to do with any "inherited" health problem, its breeding from dogs with an existing condition and breeding from them to produce more. These problems may skip a generation but I guarantee you they will come back and often a lot worse.

"I don't particularly like bow legged terriers but if I had a one that was a good worker then I wouldn't be parting with it"
Yes, agreed. I did say that too.

"Give me a bow legged worker than a straight legged waste of space any day."
Yes, I agree, if thats what you are looking for.

"Speaking of not breeding dogs on any level.

Most borders should not be bred so as they are supposed to be a "working" breed and most cannot work for the most part? Only breeding more crap."
Who says most Borders (or any other terrier for that matter) cant work? I think what you actually mean, is that most Borders (and other breeds) are never given the opportunity to work, NOT that they cant!! There is a huge difference and your sweeping statement is completely untrue. Their breed standard like all others was not made up by the KC, it was written by the very people that started the breed. The breed standard merely is a blueprint of a working terrier, Its type, temperament and description. The fact you claim most are "crap" and dont work is wrong on every level because the majority like every other breed on this earth are pets. They will never get the chance.

Lets face it, how many dogs of ANY breed actually do the job they were originally designed for?

"If I owned a "working" border I would find a suitable fell to cross it with."
​Wouldnt worry about that cos finding one (according to you) is near impossible.

"Then again I wouldn't be worried about paperwork or looks too much. Just working ability."
Again no stress, because they cant work.

"Had a few border/lakies years ago and there weren't bad and had straight legs too............. "
There you go, probably the Border influence!!

[neil cooney 10,416]

I think you'll find Dawn that most borders WONT work.

It's nothing to do with being giving the chance.

It's to do with the delusional owners that the breed has been unfortunate enough to end up with.

There's some chance still for the JRT as there are still a few lads who have the breed as a worker at heart.

 

You can throw all the fact for this and that Dawn about the K.C. and standards etc. but the fact is that the border is noticeable nowadays in the hunting field by his absence.

[neil cooney 10,416]

Or a really good jack

Nope, not in a beating line. If you told me the JRT was better than a springer that was there I'd believe you. But to say he was better than a few being used on a days shooting is a little fairy tale like.

 

Yes, the JRT can be a jack of all trades, but tends to be a master of none.