Kids And Flu

[Francie 6,368]

How many kids died last year sandy, in the UK or USA, with flu?

[Truther 1,579]

LOL mercury, you forgot the formaldehyde......or perhaps shouldn't believe all one reads.

 

 

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/scary-flu-vaccine-ingredients/

 

Simple math behind scary flu vaccine ingredients

2015/10/08The Original Skeptical Raptor274 Comments

 

When dealing with those pushing pseudoscience, like the antivaccination cult, the most frustrating thing is that they tend to ignore and deny the most basic tenets of science. If denying the fact of gravity would further their goals of “proving” vaccines are neither effective nor safe, they would do so. For all I know, they have.

Sam Harris, who has a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA (which is ironic), and is one of leading science philosophers of our generation, says this about those who cling to pseudoscience:

Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. What if someone says, “Well, that’s not how I choose to think about water.”? All we can do is appeal to scientific values. And if he doesn’t share those values, the conversation is over. If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?

If the antivaccination movement didn’t lead to epidemics of long-gone diseases, which can harm and kill children, the conversation would be over. I would just put the vaccine deniers in the same group as evolution deniers (creationists) or gravity deniers (there has to be some, somewhere). I would mock their pseudoscience, and move on. Of course, their denialism does lead to deaths of children, so we have to do what is right, and stop their lies, misinformation and ignorance in every forum we can.

We have to appeal to scientific values, and despite the fact that antivaccination pushers don’t share those values, we must continue to try. I have gotten enough emails and comments from people that they have started to vaccinate because of what I have written, so maybe some child’s life is better because all of us who support vaccines are heard.

 

Mathematics and science

 

For some, mathematics is the foundation of all science. Biology is dependent upon chemistry which is dependent upon physics which is dependent upon mathematics. Of course, I’m oversimplifying the relationships between the various branches of basic science, but my own scientific education moved in roughly the direction of advanced mathematics through basic physics to organic and physical chemistry to biology, cell biology, biochemistry and physiology.

Without mathematics, the scientific method might not make sense, because it requires statistical analysis to find small changes or differences. Though it is long lost from my brain, advanced statistics was necessary in every analysis I performed in my science life. It allowed me to find biological changes with tiny amounts of a hormone or growth factor. I didn’t observe the changes directly, only through mathematical analysis did it become apparent.

Vaccine ingredients All of those scary ingredients in the flu vaccine. Except, they’re really not scary.

Above is a photo circulating around social networks that attempt to point out all of the scary flu vaccine ingredients. Of course, if one has an understanding of A) basic human physiology, and basic mathematics, including how small numbers are really small, this photo with the scary ingredients highlighted would be laughable. Well, I do have and understanding of both, and this is laughable. I mean so laughable, it’s possible I pulled a muscle.

Formaldehyde and vaccines

Let’s start with with first highlighted ingredient, formaldehyde. This simple bio-organic molecule is used in the purification of the vaccine (the last thing we want is contamination from viruses or bacteria)– 99.9% of which is removed during the final steps of manufacturing.

The package labeling does not include the amount of formaldehyde in the vaccines because it is so tiny, so minuscule, so veritably invisible, that the amount actually cannot be measured. It’s possible that there is actually no formaldehyde in solution, because it cannot be measured, but the chances are good there is some because the manufacturing process can’t dilute out the vaccine sufficiently to guarantee that every picogram (that’s one trillionth of a gram) is removed, because it would dilute the vaccine’s antigen too.

But I can tell you where formaldehyde can be measure. The normal blood level of formaldehyde is 2.74 +/- 0.14 mg/L. A normal child has a blood volume of 2-3 L, so a normal child has 5-9 mg of formaldehyde floating in her blood, about 1,000,000X more than found in a dose of vaccine. Is that math clear? It would take probably 10-20 million doses of vaccines to just slightly increase the formaldehyde level in your child.

Now you might think “how did that evil formaldehyde get into my sweet child whom I feed organic foods, and don’t let them touch vaccines.” Well, not only do your math skills suck (let me remind the reader, 10 million doses of vaccines to measurably move the formaldehyde level–all at once), but so does your physiology knowledge. The body produces formaldehyde as a byproduct of metabolizing alcohols (not necessarily just from a beer, but the alcohol that is produced in the body and in other foods). And lots of foods contain formaldehyde, including fruits, nuts, and other yummy things.

In addition, formaldehyde is filtered from the blood rather quickly (since it is toxic), and its half-life, that is the average time one-half of the molecules of formaldehyde stay in the blood, is around 1 minute. It does not accumulate, so even if you got that 10-20 million doses of vaccines, the tiny amount of formaldehyde injected would be gone in 1-2 minutes. It is simple math.

Yes, formaldehyde is a carcinogen, it can cause cancer. However, the reference dose (that is the maximum daily dose over a lifetime that would be considered safe) for formaldehyde is around 0.2 mg/kg weight/day. In other words, an average child, let’s say 20 kg (about 48 lbs), could consume 4 mg of formaldehyde a day safely. Again, about 1 million times more formaldehyde than in a single dose of vaccines. And as far as I know, even amongst the most enthusiastic and ardent vaccine supporters, not one of them is demanding that we give children 1 million vaccinations. Every day. For the rest of their lives.

Once again, it is just the math.

Are we clear on this? The math doesn’t support the ludicrous claims that formaldehyde in vaccines is poisoning our children.

Thiomersal and vaccines

So let’s move on to the other highlighted flu vaccine ingredients, and that’s the old canard, dangerous thiomersal (or thimerosal in the USA–my education is 100% US based, but for some reason I’ve used the non-USA spelling for 30 years). Let’s make some points clear right now. This is NOT mercury in its elemental form, which you might remember from old-style medical thermometers. So there isn’t a pool of mercury in the vaccine vial. Moreover, thiomersal is ONLY used, at least in vaccines, in multi-use vials, these days, only the flu vaccine.

Thiomersal is a toxic compound, there is no denying that. But let’s get back to math. The toxicity of compounds is measured through an analysis called the %93response_relationship'>dose-response relationship, which describes the change in effect on an organism caused by differing doses of a compound after a certain exposure time. Table salt is tasty and safe in small amounts, but could kill you if taken in huge amounts. The dose-response relationship provides a graph that mathematically establishes what amounts of a compound causes what effects. This would seem to be a logical, and easily understood concept, but for many individuals, a bad substance is always bad.

First of all, the half-life of thiomersal in blood is around 2.2 days. That might seem long, but it means half is gone in a couple of days, cleared out by the kidneys. It does not accumulate.

But the math is even more telling. This flu vaccine, given once a year, has a maximum dose of 25 micrograms of mercury (but not elemental mercury). According to an NIH database, the LD50, that is, the approximate dose at which 50% of organisms will die (in this case a mouse), is 98 mg/kg body weight, if delivered subcutaneously, generally how vaccines are delivered.

A 20 kg child would get 25 micrograms of non-elemental mercury (this is important, thimerosal does not equal mercury) in one injection once a year. The theoretical LD50 dose for that same child would be around 2000 mg of thiomersal, or about ,000 times higher than the amount of thiomersal in one vaccine dose–if vaccines used in children actually had thiomersal, which it doesn’t.

So, you would have to inject your child ,000 times a day, every day, to make it potentially toxic. And no, dose-response relationships are not linear. That doesn’t mean that there’s some tiny risk of death from even a small dose of thiomersal–there is actually NO risk. And again, since there’s no thiomersal in pediatric vaccines this argument is ridiculous.

But more than all that, we have solid scientific data that show us that thiomersal is totally unrelated to autism, and is completely safe in vaccines. This illogical removal of thiomersal from vaccines makes it nearly impossible to have multi-use vials, so every vaccine has to be in a single-use prefilled syringe, which has rapidly driven up the costs of vaccines. Wait. That’s more evidence that antivaccination lunatics are in the pockets of Big Pharma. They pushed to get rid of thiomersal to make more profits for Big Pharma. That was an awesome move on their part.

Conclusions

So there it is. Simple math shows us that these are not dangerous toxins being injected into our kids. Sadly, simple math may not be in the list of skills of vaccine deniers.

More simple math problems for vaccine deniers in my follow up article.

Editor’s note: This article was originally published in March 2014. It has been completely revised and updated to include more comprehensive information, to improve readability and to add current research. Oh, and to remove an egregious mathematics error.

Key citations:

 

• Franks SJ. A mathematical model for the absorption and metabolism of formaldehyde vapour by humans. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2005 Aug 15;206(3):309-20. Epub 2005 Jan 11. PubMed PMID: 16039942.
• Pfab R, Mückter H, Roider G, Zilker T. Clinical course of severe poisoning with thiomersal. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol. 1996;34(4):453-60. PubMed PMID: 8699562.

 

 

a roundup

http://skepdic.com/fluvaccine.html

 

No farmer would do anything negative to the younger members of the herd, it doesn't make sense economically, specially when they import people and take all the shit from that to boost herd numbers, no that just doesn't make sense, neither does doing any damage to very useful herd members who's occupation is likely to bring them into contact with virus carriers, care workers, doctors....ect, but there's another high risk group in the herd that aren't cost effective, they do untold damage to the profits, the older non productive members, the infirm, both soak up lots of medical care for no real return, and they're easily replaced by useful animals

 

True story.

 

An old retired family doctor stood with a mate in his garden,

 

Doctor "why don't you dig this grass up and grow your own food? "

 

Mate, "why would i do that when veg is so cheap"

 

Doctor, "they're killing you with the food"

 

Mate,

 

Doctor " thanks for the cuppa, i'm off home"

 

[Francie 6,368]

Vaxtruth.org

[sandymere 8,263]

Being a little lazy as the US figures are easier

 

2003-04 flu season - 152 pediatric flu deaths

 

2004-05 flu season - 39 pediatric flu deaths

 

2005-06 flu season - 41 pediatric flu deaths

 

2006-07 flu season - 68 pediatric flu deaths

 

2007-08 flu season - 88 pediatric flu deaths

 

2008-09 flu season - 133 pediatric flu deaths

 

2009-10 flu season - 282 pediatric flu deaths

 

 

2010-11 - flu season - 123 pediatric flu deaths

 

2011-12 flu season - 37 pediatric flu deaths

 

2012-13 flu season - 171 pediatric flu deaths

 

2013-14 flu season - 112 pediatric flu deaths

 

2014-15 flu season - 146 pediatric flu deaths

[Francie 6,368]

Being a little lazy as the US figures are easier

 

2003-04 flu season - 152 pediatric flu deaths

 

2004-05 flu season - 39 pediatric flu deaths

 

2005-06 flu season - 41 pediatric flu deaths

 

2006-07 flu season - 68 pediatric flu deaths

 

2007-08 flu season - 88 pediatric flu deaths

 

2008-09 flu season - 133 pediatric flu deaths

 

2009-10 flu season - 282 pediatric flu deaths

 

 

2010-11 - flu season - 123 pediatric flu deaths

 

2011-12 flu season - 37 pediatric flu deaths

 

2012-13 flu season - 171 pediatric flu deaths

 

2013-14 flu season - 112 pediatric flu deaths

 

2014-15 flu season - 146 pediatric flu deaths

 

An how many of these deaths had been given the flu jab? Then died

 

An I don't want to see the CDC figures, cause there docs an associates get paid for every flu vaccine, plus its only voluntary to report deaths related to vaccines, it should be compulsory.

[Francie 6,368]

This is the story of people this year, who have died after getting the nasal flu vaccine

 

 

http://vaxtruth.org/2015/01/flu-shot-kills/

[BGD 6,436]

 

Interesting information sandymere and I am certainly not going to argue with you about this topic... Just curiously do you know of many cases of kids who haven't been vaccinated and suffered because of it? The reason I ask is because I know a few who didn't vaccinate and have never seemed to have any problems. For the record my kids were vaccinated at birth but I have had doubts whether I did the right thing by them. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

 

 

The kids that aren't vaccinated still benefit from the herd immunity because a majority of kids are vaccinated, as soon as those ratios change we run into problems though...

 

Vaccination erradicated smallpox, one of the biggest killers of people for 1000s of years and they've made some terrible life threatening childhood diseases almost nonexistent in Western countries. And this is a bad thing to some people

Edited October 14, 2015 by BGD

[sandymere 8,263]

This is the story of people this year, who have died after getting the nasal flu vaccine

 

 

http://vaxtruth.org/2015/01/flu-shot-kills/

And how many more would die if they didn't get it??? Your post just shows that viral illnesses kill so getting a vaccination to prevent some of those deaths must be a good thing.

[sandymere 8,263]

UK info, look at hospital admissions etc and consider cost of vaccination against death rates and financial cost, a no brainer for anyone with a brain.

 

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/325217/Annual_flu_report_winter_2012_to_2013.pdf

[johnny boy68 11,726]

This is the story of people this year, who have died after getting the nasal flu vaccine

 

 

http://vaxtruth.org/2015/01/flu-shot-kills/

Any links to a non-christian page? vaxtruth.org have people doing blogs who compare having vaccinations to rape.......crackpot to say the least. Check out the blog by Marcella Piper-Terry.

[Francie 6,368]

 

 

This is the story of people this year, who have died after getting the nasal flu vaccine

 

 

http://vaxtruth.org/2015/01/flu-shot-kills/

Any links to a non-christian page? vaxtruth.org have people doing blogs who compare having vaccinations to rape.......crackpot to say the least. Check out the blog by Marcella Piper-Terry.

Doesn't matter johnny, the story's are true,the news you watch daily is administered by crackpots.

 

The story's are true no matter your opinion on the broadcasters, an how do you know vaxtruth is Christian, I never noticed.

 

Why does it matter if their Christian? That's like me saying any links to christian page, instead of secular, I don't look for there religion or non religion, just the truth mate.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Francie

[sandymere 8,263]

lol

“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Edited October 14, 2015 by sandymere

[Silversnake 1,099]

lol

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Everyone thinks they are grasping the universe as it really is, not just you. To claim those who question this or disagree are delusional shows arrogance and naivety which does not sit well with me. While you have your science and expertise in certain matters you still do not know everything that happens everywhere in the world. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and I feel reassured the vaccinations that were administered to my kids only had tiny and insignificant doses of harmful poisons in them, I am not %100 convinced that the diseases and viruses they are being vaccinated against are naturally occurring. Can you tell me that you know for a FACT that these diseases were not manufactured, that they are not biological warfare (which as we all know has been used many times throughout history) and also that they are not the start of worse things to come. Have these diseases been created and the vaccinations for them been manufactured and planned for whatever reason and unleashed on the public? If what I say is true, which I hope is not, there is clear evidence of an escalating problem that vaccinations while maybe helping, have not stopped these problems getting worse. I am no scientist and I do not mean to challenge you to prove you wrong as you seem very intelligent and well intentioned, I do hope that you can find things out I may not be able to find out and most of all I do hope that at some time, (preferably now) or in the future that we can find the truth and all live happily ever after with no diseases and no vaccinations required. Atvb.