Yes/no

[ginger beard 4,652]

 

Bloody good write up by jeemes. Helped me get my head round it a bit better ,but why and when do things go wrong.I am thinking of plumbers line of lurchers. Thought you needed to outcross to refresh the gene pool.

Cheers

I think all families will need to outcross at some point,and that is where danger lies. When you have spent years purifying or narrowing your gene pool it is impossible to have your eye on everything and some things are unseen. You can inbreed to do good or bad. You are engineering nature and all inbreeding is doing for you is vastly speeding up natural selection. The responsibility for the right selection lies with you. When you outcross you allow in thousands of genes,some of which can undo all the good work you have done.If possible an out and out outcross should be avoided and distantly related dog to your existing family used.The offspring watched carefully for incoming faults and bred back into your strain.

Any faults with dogs are corrected best with inbreeding even if those faults were caused by poor inbreeding,and lets be clear we are talking about in and in breeding,not line breeding which is complicated type of outcrossing.

Only dogs die,the germ cell or gene pool is imortal and lives on as long as the dog reproduces,thats why when people on here are talking about breeding good dogs together they are missing the point,that they are not breeding simply from those two parents but from the germ cell or genes that they carry.

The main point to remember is to forget systems or anything like that.You can only judge an individual on what it shows.

 

sorry mate just something i picked up on.ANY FAULTS WITH DOGS ARE CORRECTED BEST WITH INBREEDING EVEN IF THOSE FAULTS WERE CAUSED BY POOR INBREEDING.that's not a trait i want to lock in thanks.

[Somewhereyournot 1,117]

 

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

Have you got any pics of your line? Would be interesting to see a few closely related dogs.

lol I have just asked him the exact same thing. He talks a lot of sense

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

 

 

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

Have you got any pics of your line? Would be interesting to see a few closely related dogs.

lol I have just asked him the exact same thing. He talks a lot of sense

Sorry fella didn't see your post.

 

Never been interested in breeding or line breeding but having read these posts it does make sense.

[Somewhereyournot 1,117]

 

 

 

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

Have you got any pics of your line? Would be interesting to see a few closely related dogs.

lol I have just asked him the exact same thing. He talks a lot of sense

Sorry fella didn't see your post.

 

Never been interested in breeding or line breeding but having read these posts it does make sense.

i didn't mean it like that, thought it was on different thread.

I'm not into bull xs, or never looked into line bred lurchers etc.

But I think if the proper bull was added to the right dog it may interest me further. He talks sense and mentions about using the right type of bull terrier. So interested in seeing what he has.

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

 

 

 

 

some of mine are identical,but it doesnt follow they will have exactly the same working traits because they look the same.

Have you got any pics of your line? Would be interesting to see a few closely related dogs.

lol I have just asked him the exact same thing. He talks a lot of sense

Sorry fella didn't see your post.

 

Never been interested in breeding or line breeding but having read these posts it does make sense.

i didn't mean it like that, thought it was on different thread.

I'm not into bull xs, or never looked into line bred lurchers etc.

But I think if the proper bull was added to the right dog it may interest me further. He talks sense and mentions about using the right type of bull terrier. So interested in seeing what he has.

No worries mate. Think we on the same page.

[Truther 1,579]

Without inbreeding no "types" would exist................Animal or human.............Everything got "typed" by inbreeding............Unless anyone wants to put another theory forward?..............The difference between mother natures way and mans way is simple............Mother nature is brutal, and man is a soft touch.........preserving things he shouldn't................In nature something works or its gone...............Worker to worker has always done me........Iv'e never created anything really, not many people have imho............But if i did want to go down that route i'd do it with my eyes open, slowly slowly catchy monkey, and be prepared to cull hard but fairly, don't confuse nature with nurture..............Most don't have the time,money or minerals, or know how.........The fact is buying form proven stock is the destiny of all but the few.............Just an honest opinion.

[ginger beard 4,652]

makes good sense

[Butler 396]

Out of the brother sister mating Mik bred 3 came to us two dogs and a bitch.... All were 100% healthy and mentally sound were a pleasure to kennel and were just like all other dogs from this line. Keen to please with above average drive the runty dog mik mentioned turned out the best of the 3 and was lost last season in the field doing what he was bred for... The other two my dog and a friend's bitch were everything you would want in a dog looks and attitude wise but lacked in pace badly for our type of work... They were neutered and placed in pet homes... I've had a very good run with this family of dogs and in almost 20 years with them i've only had one not make the grade. Was it because of the close mating ? Imo it wasn't I just put it down to luck of the draw.. yes the percentage of wastage was slightly higher in this litter but that's all part and parcel with breeding. The lads that got the good ones really did get what they were looking for in this breeding. Would I take another bred the same way? In a heart beat.......

[MR RABBIT 715]

Most old dog men did father to daughter... Most kept away from brother and sister...were they right who knows

[Chid 6,551]

Even hancock inbreeds

[brenner 773]

who's actually got a line on here where there coming out like pea's in a pod with no outcross in the last few generations.?

the whippet I run at the moment comes from a line that throws a very similar type of dog. Most whippet enthusiasts would spot the type of breeding from across the field. Also the traits are very simular, to the point where you are surprised if you see a dog from this line behaving out of the norm or lacking certain qualities that the line is known for. Having said that... There is outcrosses along the way but as mentioned already , unfortunately it has to be done at some stage.

[jeemes 4,485]

 

 

Bloody good write up by jeemes. Helped me get my head round it a bit better ,but why and when do things go wrong.I am thinking of plumbers line of lurchers. Thought you needed to outcross to refresh the gene pool.

Cheers

I think all families will need to outcross at some point,and that is where danger lies. When you have spent years purifying or narrowing your gene pool it is impossible to have your eye on everything and some things are unseen. You can inbreed to do good or bad. You are engineering nature and all inbreeding is doing for you is vastly speeding up natural selection. The responsibility for the right selection lies with you. When you outcross you allow in thousands of genes,some of which can undo all the good work you have done.If possible an out and out outcross should be avoided and distantly related dog to your existing family used.The offspring watched carefully for incoming faults and bred back into your strain.

Any faults with dogs are corrected best with inbreeding even if those faults were caused by poor inbreeding,and lets be clear we are talking about in and in breeding,not line breeding which is complicated type of outcrossing.

Only dogs die,the germ cell or gene pool is imortal and lives on as long as the dog reproduces,thats why when people on here are talking about breeding good dogs together they are missing the point,that they are not breeding simply from those two parents but from the germ cell or genes that they carry.

The main point to remember is to forget systems or anything like that.You can only judge an individual on what it shows.

 

sorry mate just something i picked up on.ANY FAULTS WITH DOGS ARE CORRECTED BEST WITH INBREEDING EVEN IF THOSE FAULTS WERE CAUSED BY POOR INBREEDING.that's not a trait i want to lock in thanks.

 

What trait dont you want to lock in?

[brenner 773]

There also a few lines p.b.t that throw a very simular type of dog in looks and traits. Pea's in a pod would not be a bad analogy

[Chaff 3,622]

would I be right in thinking the reason for out crossing is to create a stud dog with all necessary traits that match the original line, as without this the original line would become sterile.

Also in outcrossing the subsequent litters would go through the same selection process before being put back to the original line

Seems like a very lengthy process if that's right, but I can see that you could end up with some very good consistent dogs

How many generations can be bred before an outcross is required, as you wouldn't know if you had a litter full of jaffas

[brenner 773]

I just invented a proverb on the back of this thread.. " if you find the glass of knowledge is full, be prepared to spill a little out to make room for more"...... Quote by me....patent pending.. Lol