General Outlook

[johnrussell84 2,830]

I have hunted for the last 13 yrs with a man 20 years my senior he's showed me the ropes with terriers and his way of how he reads them to be ready for earthwork and when to push and when not to. We currently keep Russell's between us that drift back to jonesy stuff. I have seen his dogs fire and my own on there first season to maybe half dozen foxes an he d say stop them there, work them back above ground they're second season dogs this line an that would be it he d say patience an il be repaid. Anyways we got chatting off old xs an the one we spent quite abit time over was a border x Russell he told me he kept one 20 yrs ago An seen another 5 work in various setts told me really good dogs if you can find the right ones. My thoughts was will that happen again as the price of borders etc are inflating constant an mixed xs are more frowned upon as the seasons go by. This is to the older generation of workers have u seen old xs die away?? Id much rather x worker to worker rather than colour what's ur views??

[fat man 4,741]

Maybe 20 year ago there were more working borders about than there is now and a better choice of stud for a russell.I reckon you could breed a lot of borderxrussells before you will come up with what you want so why waste your time when as you say you have russells that are doing the job.I have seen 3 what i would call good working borders in 40 years of diging and at this minute i dont know of any,not saying that they are not out there but they are scarce,more is the pity as they are a type of terrier i quite like.

[johnrussell84 2,830]

Not saying I want one asof just now was just a x out of convo that He rated , was just wondering the more experienced guys views,

[smasher 1,055]

A lot of what's about today was obtained through the crossing of different breeds,you only have to take a look at the white dogs in cork for an example,or a lot of lines of black dogs with bull influence,the crosses haven't died away there still there just they have become lines/families of dogs,you don't get so much of the 1st crosses now as a lot of these crosses have established them selves now.

[chesney 5,435]

A mate of mine bred a litter of first cross border patterdales a few year back a couple of dogs went right well of it and one of the dogs has gone and produced a few decent workers when bred back in to other patterdale bitchs.

[marshman 7,757]

I can remember as a kid the terrier men around my way had a lot of cross bred terrier jrt x borders or bull x Russel or lakie borders. Basically if it worked it got bred to another worker regardless of colour size or stamp, looks didn't matter as they where only gonna be grafted . What I did notice they culled hard and what they ended up with was basically a mongrel line fit for work .

[johnrussell84 2,830]

Yeh mate a remember growing up looking at some misshaped terriers all small ugly as feck but we have wee rabbit type warrens an they were grafted well and regular

[Pick and bar 381]

Gone

Edited September 14, 2015 by Pick and bar

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Call me a purist or just a polemic c**t but why cross two types where both are doing the job .Beyond me but what do i know .Just find another of type and keep it right .

[johnrussell84 2,830]

Just an opinion mate some xs can compliment each other with drive and coat etc, I'm fully aware now a days it's not the done thing but the older guys had all mixes and all done a job

[marshman 7,757]

The men that knew my father bred best to best , the way they looked at it was why breed say a good border dog to a lesser border bitch when there's a 10 times better jrt bitch there. They where only after workers and not a line of pure bred dogs !

[neil cooney 10,416]

The men that knew my father bred best to best , the way they looked at it was why breed say a good border dog to a lesser border bitch when there's a 10 times better jrt bitch there. They where only after workers and not a line of pure bred dogs !

You're right Marshman, it was the old way but transport had a lot to do with it, or lack of transport.

Back in the day a lad in the next county could have a great terrier and you'd never hear of it but nowadays with motorways, ferries, the inter-net and folk keeping pedigrees (or saying that they do) it's easier to find a dog to complement your bitch breeding wise, IF, you know what you're looking for.

Have to admit, as seriously as I take breeding nowadays I used to get a kick out of listening to the old timers who were local to me (like your fathers mates would have been to you) and how competitive they were. It just didn't end with a dig on a Sunday morn, sometimes two curs might get at each other and the lad who's dog made the other one run down the road had the bragging rights for the next week or so. Until it was his dog running down the road with it's tail between it's legs.

I remember a terrier of mine bolting a fox and the fox ran straight into the rib cage of a lads collie that was standing at the hole. The fox turned and went back to ground where we dug it.

The collie was known after that as the dog that got the fox !!!

It was all about accounting for vermin and local bragging rights, not how professional you got the job done but as long as the job got done.

[marshman 7,757]

 

 

The men that knew my father bred best to best , the way they looked at it was why breed say a good border dog to a lesser border bitch when there's a 10 times better jrt bitch there. They where only after workers and not a line of pure bred dogs !

You're right Marshman, it was the old way but transport had a lot to do with it, or lack of transport.

Back in the day a lad in the next county could have a great terrier and you'd never hear of it but nowadays with motorways, ferries, the inter-net and folk keeping pedigrees (or saying that they do) it's easier to find a dog to complement your bitch breeding wise, IF, you know what you're looking for.

Have to admit, as seriously as I take breeding nowadays I used to get a kick out of listening to the old timers who were local to me (like your fathers mates would have been to you) and how competitive they were. It just didn't end with a dig on a Sunday morn, sometimes two curs might get at each other and the lad who's dog made the other one run down the road had the bragging rights for the next week or so. Until it was his dog running down the road with it's tail between it's legs.

I remember a terrier of mine bolting a fox and the fox ran straight into the rib cage of a lads collie that was standing at the hole. The fox turned and went back to ground where we dug it.

The collie was known after that as the dog that got the fox !!!

It was all about accounting for vermin and local bragging rights, not how professional you got the job done but as long as the job got done.

true transport had a lot to do with it , if I remember correctly they only bred to each other's dogs lol . i don't know why they never traveled I suppose it's just the way they done things .

[neil cooney 10,416]

Wasn't a bad thing either. They kept themselves happy, the farmers happy and there wasn't a word about it.

[foxbolter 447]

Sometimes ur better off breeding off what you know than what people will tell you it's a lesson that takes some people a long time to learn should never go off grandparents look at the specimen that's in front of you