Is The Apbt The True Bulldog Or A Terrier Cross?

[neil cooney 10,416]

JMHO but the gameness most certainly didn't come from the terriers as IMO most terriers are curs.

Yes, the terrier was crossed with the bull types for the rat pits. But that's where they were used. Dogs used for a different purpose took their own path.

[BGD 6,435]

Just wondering, if the APBT is the pure bulldog never crossed with terriers, why are they called terriers and have been for a very, very long time?

[neil cooney 10,416]

ive the opinion that terrier blood is certainly in the makeup of the APBT. black n tans show up in them and staffords.

And where did the black and tan come from in some terrier breeds.

So do you think Rottweilers and Kerry Beagles are terrier crosses ?

[DogFox123 1,379]

JMHO but the gameness most certainly didn't come from the terriers as IMO most terriers are curs.

Yes, the terrier was crossed with the bull types for the rat pits. But that's where they were used. Dogs used for a different purpose took their own path.

Don't forget most Pitbulls are curs unless you agree that there's different degrees of Gameness? That's a entirely different topic that will get out of hand lol.

[gnasher16 30,025]

JMHO but the gameness most certainly didn't come from the terriers as IMO most terriers are curs.

Yes, the terrier was crossed with the bull types for the rat pits. But that's where they were used. Dogs used for a different purpose took their own path.

So you believe that the original bulldog that never needed to show gameness is responsible for the gameness needed in pit dogs......no i dont buy that......

 

Im off to catch a bit of sun now which is a shame as this will most likely develop into an interesting little debate......as much love and admiration as i have for the breed ive never been a big book reader so never paid too much attention to history so i might of picked up a thing or two ! .....all the best chaps.

[neems 2,406]

My opinion is the terriers of 200+ years ago would have been bayers and not mixed at all with their quarry unless they absolutely had to,aftercare would have been a very low priority where they done their work,so a 'game' terrier would die very young and not pass on its genes,like most dogs back then they would have been survivors first and foremost.

 

I would say the bull-terriers of the rat pits will have been added,more to bring the size down and up the % of willing dogs in the litter,and that would have been done sparingly because of the negative traits it would have brought.

 

I once had a bull x terrier out of a well bred 'bulldog' bitch to a very strong and hard patterdale,it was a great athlete, but no comparison to even my mongerel staff (who was only a pound or so heavier) in terms of mouth and strength.

 

So much more bulldog than terrier imo

[antg 1,765]

 

ive the opinion that terrier blood is certainly in the makeup of the APBT. black n tans show up in them and staffords.

And where did the black and tan come from in some terrier breeds.

So do you think Rottweilers and Kerry Beagles are terrier crosses ?

 

do you think the apbt are rottweiler x ?

[BGD 6,435]

My opinion is the terriers of 200+ years ago would have been bayers and not mixed at all with their quarry unless they absolutely had to,aftercare would have been a very low priority where they done their work,so a 'game' terrier would die very young and not pass on its genes,like most dogs back then they would have been survivors first and foremost.

 

I would say the bull-terriers of the rat pits will have been added,more to bring the size down and up the % of willing dogs in the litter,and that would have been done sparingly because of the negative traits it would have brought.

 

I once had a bull x terrier out of a well bred 'bulldog' bitch to a very strong and hard patterdale,it was a great athlete, but no comparison to even my mongerel staff (who was only a pound or so heavier) in terms of mouth and strength.

 

So much more bulldog than terrier imo

An interesting theory that they used the already crossbred ratting dogs instead of pure terriers, certainly makes sense

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

 

ive the opinion that terrier blood is certainly in the makeup of the APBT. black n tans show up in them and staffords.

And where did the black and tan come from in some terrier breeds.

So do you think Rottweilers and Kerry Beagles are terrier crosses ?

 

do you think the apbt are rottweiler x ?

 

Not for one second nor do I think there's terrier in them.

[antg 1,765]

 

 

 

ive the opinion that terrier blood is certainly in the makeup of the APBT. black n tans show up in them and staffords.

And where did the black and tan come from in some terrier breeds.

So do you think Rottweilers and Kerry Beagles are terrier crosses ?

 

do you think the apbt are rottweiler x ?

 

Not for one second nor do I think there's terrier in them.

 

we will never know, thats for sure.

i find it hard to get my head round the apbt not having any terrier blood in there somewhere as the same fanciers that did the rat pits and bull baiting would have crossed their dogs at some time. its not like it is now were we can jump in a car and travel to breed to a selected dog. them days i suspect they used the best that was local to their areas.

very interesting all the same.

[Lenmcharristar 9,721]

Good reading in this

[BGD 6,435]

 

 

 

ive the opinion that terrier blood is certainly in the makeup of the APBT. black n tans show up in them and staffords.

And where did the black and tan come from in some terrier breeds.

So do you think Rottweilers and Kerry Beagles are terrier crosses ?

 

do you think the apbt are rottweiler x ?

 

Not for one second nor do I think there's terrier in them.

 

 

Why do you think Terrier was added to the end of the name if not because terrier blood was used?

[MickC 1,825]

The original bulldog was allegedly big and heavy for holding a bull which would make sense but had no agility and was cumbersome. As the bull baiting faded out a more agile animal was needed so terrier was added into the mix to reduce size and make them more agile for the rat pits, baiting and fighting sports of the day. English and Irish immigrants took these dogs with them over to the Americas where they were a lot better dog than the Colonionists were using. People like Colby and Charlie Loyd bought some of these dogs from the immigrants and began breeding and selling them on a large scale to the Colonionists. These then crossed them with there own best fighting dogs coon hounds,curs etc and the apbt developed from these crosses into the animal you see today. Looking at photos online some of these dogs still do look very hound like in appearance and some are also terrier size. Reading up online it seems the English/Irish dogs were bred with the breeds of dogs the Americans where using and this is the make up of the apbt.

Edited August 14, 2015 by MickC

[Bosun11 537]

Here's a few more of my mutterings on the subject...

First off, i dont believe the terriers used nearly 200 years ago had temperements anything like the earthdogs of today and like i said before, how much terrier was used, i'd doubt much at all... A generation, two? Enough to bring size (bulk) down and and add speed. My line bred bull lurchers are 25 years from greyhound blood and apart from speed (and shitting!) they dont show any greyhoundy traits.

 

Lovin the Nuttall romance of the northern mini pit dogs and grandfathers etc, because i've known Brian for over 30 years and to different 'audiences' he'll say the blood is or is absolutley not in the make up of his dogs. You gotta love the romance of it all though... But if it sells eh....!

[kanny 20,420]

Don't see any apbt with broken coats or was it just smooth coated terriers that were used in the mix?