AKA-BRINDLE 879 Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) If you breed a male donkey to a female horse you get a mule...thats a hybrid...breed two donkeys together out of differnt blood lines you get just a donkey...as just about all APBT go back to common ancestors via Dibo or Colby blood...how can a pure bred APBT bred to another pure bred APBT ever be a hybrid?!...see what im saying?...where have i said "ace caliber bulldogs are produced by luck"??...you originally quoted my post about Hybrid vigour...i said that hybrid vigour is a term used when a cross breeder strikes it lucky...but now you agree with me GrCh Nikki wasnt a hybrid!...my opinion is that GrCh Nikkis success had nothing to do with hybrid vigour or anything such thing and more to do with the strenght of the blood on the bottom of the ped...seriously would you class Dann's Gar as an ace caliber bulldog??...you say bred with confidence and expectation...i say producing ace caliber gamedogs out un- game proven stock has an element of luck about it...just my opinion...and no disrespect intended You are using the term " hybrid " in the truest scientific meaning in the dictionary.....people who have bred performance bulldogs over many years have simply used it in the way of describing totally unrelated blood within the breed......a bit like stating that a dog is dead game when its still alive its just a phrase thats coined.........yes if we want to be completely scientifically punctual your donkey/horse explannation is correct................how can 1 dog that go,s back to Dibo and 1 dog that go,s back to Colby have common ancestry its like saying me and you have common ancestry ! I cant even remember why Nikki came into it now and i cant be arsed to trawl back through the thread and find what it was you said about luck.....my simple point is that 2 dogs from unrelated pure blood ( a hybrid ) that produces great dogs is not luck.....all breeding has an element of luck but producing a litter of game dogs out of pure family bred curs has far more expectation than producing a litter of game dogs out of scatterbred gr ch deeply game dogs in my opinion. As for stories....there must have been more stories written about dogs of this breed than every other breed of dog put together.....i was once told "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see " !! And around and around we go!...you gotta laugh...I've only replyd to you when you've quoted me...you jumped on my post about hybrid vigour telling me i'm wrong...now you change your mind and say im using the term in the truest sense...and your what?...using the phrase as you've read other people use it!...it was you who brought GrCh Nikki into the conversation as an example of a hybrid...but then changed your mind and agreed she wasnt a hybrid...you strongly disagreed that hybrid vigour has an element of luck...but now say all breeding has an element of luck...you sound a bit like your making it up as you go along gnasher...always makes me laugh how corny old cut and paste phrases like handsome is as handsome dose or believe none of what you hear and half of what you see ect ect get dropped in these pit bull threads like their some sort of pearls of wisdom...Gar is recorded as a 1XL what i posted above is the record of the match...not a story...i ask again lol do you seriously class Dann's Gar as what you describe as an ace caliber bulldog?? Edited November 1, 2015 by AKA-BRINDLE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKA-BRINDLE 879 Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 .....all breeding has an element of luck but producing a litter of game dogs out of pure family bred curs has far more expectation than producing a litter of game dogs out of scatterbred gr ch deeply game dogs in my opinion. Im no expert on the breeding of Game dogs...but the above opinion shows me neither are you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 If you breed a male donkey to a female horse you get a mule...thats a hybrid...breed two donkeys together out of differnt blood lines you get just a donkey...as just about all APBT go back to common ancestors via Dibo or Colby blood...how can a pure bred APBT bred to another pure bred APBT ever be a hybrid?!...see what im saying?...where have i said "ace caliber bulldogs are produced by luck"??...you originally quoted my post about Hybrid vigour...i said that hybrid vigour is a term used when a cross breeder strikes it lucky...but now you agree with me GrCh Nikki wasnt a hybrid!...my opinion is that GrCh Nikkis success had nothing to do with hybrid vigour or anything such thing and more to do with the strenght of the blood on the bottom of the ped...seriously would you class Dann's Gar as an ace caliber bulldog??...you say bred with confidence and expectation...i say producing ace caliber gamedogs out un- game proven stock has an element of luck about it...just my opinion...and no disrespect intended You are using the term " hybrid " in the truest scientific meaning in the dictionary.....people who have bred performance bulldogs over many years have simply used it in the way of describing totally unrelated blood within the breed......a bit like stating that a dog is dead game when its still alive its just a phrase thats coined.........yes if we want to be completely scientifically punctual your donkey/horse explannation is correct................how can 1 dog that go,s back to Dibo and 1 dog that go,s back to Colby have common ancestry its like saying me and you have common ancestry ! I cant even remember why Nikki came into it now and i cant be arsed to trawl back through the thread and find what it was you said about luck.....my simple point is that 2 dogs from unrelated pure blood ( a hybrid ) that produces great dogs is not luck.....all breeding has an element of luck but producing a litter of game dogs out of pure family bred curs has far more expectation than producing a litter of game dogs out of scatterbred gr ch deeply game dogs in my opinion. As for stories....there must have been more stories written about dogs of this breed than every other breed of dog put together.....i was once told "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see " !! And around and around we go!...you gotta laugh...I've only replyd to you when you've quoted me...you jumped on my post about hybrid vigour telling me i'm wrong...now you change your mind and say im using the term in the truest sense...and your what?...using the phrase as you've read other people use it!...it was you who brought GrCh Nikki into the conversation as an example of a hybrid...but then changed your mind and agreed she wasnt a hybrid...you strongly disagreed that hybrid vigour has an element of luck...but now say all breeding has an element of luck...you sound a bit like your making it up as you go along gnasher...always makes me laugh how corny old cut and paste phrases like handsome is as handsome dose or believe none of what you hear and half of what you see ect ect get dropped in these pit bull threads like their some sort of pearls of wisdom...Gar is recorded as a 1XL what i posted above is the record of the match...not a story...i ask again lol do you seriously class Dann's Gar as what you describe as an ace caliber bulldog?? Wow this seems to of really burst a pimple on you is it some kind of " who will have the last word " thing ?.....because if it is you can have it im just having a casual natter about dogs but you seem to be getting all charged up !.........its no good quoting somebody if what you quote isnt what they said.....i didnt call Nikki a hybrid......she was a cross,simple as that........she was simply the first ace calibre bulldog we are both likely to of heard of that came into my mind but you seem to have adopted it and made 2 + 2 = 5 !........how can she be a hybrid if she has common ancestry ?......just like how can a Dibo dog have common ancestry with a Colby dog i say again its like you saying you are related to me as we are both human beings !!........" corny old cut paste phrases " i cant even attempt to answer that as i genuinely have no idea what you are talking about..........was Gar an ace calibre bulldog,of course he wasnt......who ever said he was ?......and im making it up as i go along ......why dont you tell me whats what and we,ll leave it at that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Silversnake 1,099 Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Please don't take it so serious(not aimed at anyone in particular) , I like to hear the history and stories. Some of the knowledge that is told is very difficult /impossible to come by and I personally appreciate that you share your knowledge. At the end of the day it is not a competition, but it seems some are trying to 'win' or prove a point unnecessarily. Please stay calm and keep sharing, I am sure I am not alone in enjoying the 'true' stuff and disregarding the 'ego' stuff. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOKEL 2,216 Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 The story with gar involved a Wheaton that beat him... Tho it wasn't as simple as that. The bet was he would stop it in a certain time, he took an extra couple of minutes to complete the task so lost the bet... Yokel Gar's owner boasted his dog could stop any Stafford in 20 minutes...a 30lb Staff was brought over from Ireland to meet Gar in his own back yard...Gar came in at 38lb...he couldnt stop the Staff and lost the bet...this was Gars only match...despite being called out many times...in time his owner went with another line of bulldogs...like i said previously...no disrespect to the dogs mentioned...just discussing the names brought into the thread haha, my memory is fantastic aint it!!! i was almost there...just the wrong breed.... Yokel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Please don't take it so serious(not aimed at anyone in particular) , I like to hear the history and stories. Some of the knowledge that is told is very difficult /impossible to come by and I personally appreciate that you share your knowledge. At the end of the day it is not a competition, but it seems some are trying to 'win' or prove a point unnecessarily. Please stay calm and keep sharing, I am sure I am not alone in enjoying the 'true' stuff and disregarding the 'ego' stuff. How can anything be won or lost in a conversation about history.....its simply a difference of opinion thats all theres no points to be proved ......shoplifters dont publically discuss shoplifting so theres no ego,s to protect or ground to be gained a person would have to be pretty thick to chat about such things while in ownership of anything remotely resembling a bulldog so like anything else its just an interesting subject that throws up talking points no more no less. Edited November 4, 2015 by gnasher16 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Silversnake 1,099 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Please don't take it so serious(not aimed at anyone in particular) , I like to hear the history and stories. Some of the knowledge that is told is very difficult /impossible to come by and I personally appreciate that you share your knowledge. At the end of the day it is not a competition, but it seems some are trying to 'win' or prove a point unnecessarily. Please stay calm and keep sharing, I am sure I am not alone in enjoying the 'true' stuff and disregarding the 'ego' stuff. How can anything be won or lost in a conversation about history.....its simply a difference of opinion thats all theres no points to be proved ......shoplifters dont publically discuss shoplifting so theres no ego,s to protect or ground to be gained a person would have to be pretty thick to chat about such things while in ownership of anything remotely resembling a bulldog so like anything else its just an interesting subject that throws up talking points no more no less.None of my criticism was aimed at you, you sound like a very patient man. If anything I was hoping you would keep contributing despite some of the things that have been posted on this thread. Atvb. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKA-BRINDLE 879 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 The story with gar involved a Wheaton that beat him... Tho it wasn't as simple as that. The bet was he would stop it in a certain time, he took an extra couple of minutes to complete the task so lost the bet... Yokel Gar's owner boasted his dog could stop any Stafford in 20 minutes...a 30lb Staff was brought over from Ireland to meet Gar in his own back yard...Gar came in at 38lb...he couldnt stop the Staff and lost the bet...this was Gars only match...despite being called out many times...in time his owner went with another line of bulldogs...like i said previously...no disrespect to the dogs mentioned...just discussing the names brought into the thread haha, my memory is fantastic aint it!!! i was almost there...just the wrong breed.... Yokel Knew what you ment mate...was just filling in the blanks for ya 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKA-BRINDLE 879 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Please don't take it so serious(not aimed at anyone in particular) , I like to hear the history and stories. Some of the knowledge that is told is very difficult /impossible to come by and I personally appreciate that you share your knowledge. At the end of the day it is not a competition, but it seems some are trying to 'win' or prove a point unnecessarily. Please stay calm and keep sharing, I am sure I am not alone in enjoying the 'true' stuff and disregarding the 'ego' stuff. Some times i think it must be nice being perfect like the likes of you silversnake...but then i think f**k it! im happy as iam...sometimes when people are passionate about a subject and believe in their hearts they are right...some of that passion will spill over onto the forum...id rather read a blunt and rude post thats heart felt and honest than some of the wishy washy be my friend crap that gets posted on here...years ago i worked with an old boy who was a pigeon fancier...he used to race them and belonged to a club...it often kicked off at club meetings...and i remember the old boy once coming into work with his glasses taped up and a black eye...its just human nature...not all of us conduct ourselves like victorian gentlemen...but if you dont like my posts or how i post them...simply skip by them...i mean all that half baked neo-nazi claptrap you post on here i simply ignore it...i wouldnt bother to whine about it...but i wouldnt want to put anyone off posting on this thread...so i will step aside...feel free to fill it with your interesting opinions silversnake...you boys crack on 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Silversnake 1,099 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else aka-brindle but sometimes it is unavoidable as I am sure you realise, I enjoy some of the content you post and I have enjoyed this thread ALOT. I did not mean to take aim at anyone in particular, I was simply hoping to hear more of yours and others knowledge and experiences of the apbt, if you are stepping aside I guess I failed there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Please don't take it so serious(not aimed at anyone in particular) , I like to hear the history and stories. Some of the knowledge that is told is very difficult /impossible to come by and I personally appreciate that you share your knowledge. At the end of the day it is not a competition, but it seems some are trying to 'win' or prove a point unnecessarily. Please stay calm and keep sharing, I am sure I am not alone in enjoying the 'true' stuff and disregarding the 'ego' stuff.How can anything be won or lost in a conversation about history.....its simply a difference of opinion thats all theres no points to be proved ......shoplifters dont publically discuss shoplifting so theres no ego,s to protect or ground to be gained a person would have to be pretty thick to chat about such things while in ownership of anything remotely resembling a bulldog so like anything else its just an interesting subject that throws up talking points no more no less.None of my criticism was aimed at you, you sound like a very patient man. If anything I was hoping you would keep contributing despite some of the things that have been posted on this thread. Atvb. No i wasnt digging you out mate just letting you know there was no kind of silly bickering going on......just a straightforward difference of opinion on a common interest thats all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Im no expert on the breeding of Game dogs...but the above opinion shows me neither are you I didnt see this.....well if your still on the plot have a natter with the dutchman who bred one of the greatest family of dogs in Britain and Europe on his opinions of sibling breeding.....he still frequents some of the gamedog forums so im told........maybe you should tell him he doesnt know what he,s doing Edited November 4, 2015 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted October 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Too much smoke without fire... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bolero 67 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 14/08/2015 at 04:56, DogFox123 said: I love a good old debate and this is the biggest one regarding the history of the APBT. Experts on the breed like Richard Stratton and many others believe the APBT is infact the original Bulldog, whilst the majority agree it was a cross between the Bulldog and working terriers. I for one think there's too many articles and evidence for the terrier infusion not to be true. This is old as dirt but how anyone could think they are the original bulldog is beyond me. Where would you explain the 19 lb pit dogs that look like terriers that were multi time pit winners when the breed first came to America. Hell most people like there pit dogs in the 30 lb range which is still small. I beleive some had more bulldog blood and some had more Terrier blood like 75/25 either way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greb147 6,809 Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) On 20/04/2019 at 23:19, Bolero said: This is old as dirt but how anyone could think they are the original bulldog is beyond me. Where would you explain the 19 lb pit dogs that look like terriers that were multi time pit winners when the breed first came to America. Hell most people like there pit dogs in the 30 lb range which is still small. I beleive some had more bulldog blood and some had more Terrier blood like 75/25 either way Yep I agree, different strains had different percentages of Bulldog and Terrier, hence the massive variation in size & type. Edited June 20, 2020 by Greb147 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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