Lenmcharristar 9,807 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 so can anybody answer the original question? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
South hams hunter 8,922 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Its been answered several times Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,121 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I can appreciate that gnasher but of course if you cross two soecies you can exoect certain things, look at lurchers. We can tell the cross quite often based on looks and know roughly how they'll behave and work because of their parenting. We can even cross these breeds and get a good idea of how they will come out and what traits/ characteristics they will have. Surely the best characteristics from two different breeds is the definition of hybrid vigour? A Lurcher may have 2/3/4/5 different breeds involved in its make up.....a bull terrier has 2......would you class the Apbt as a cross breed ?.......you could create a tight family gene pool within 4 or 5 generations but for it to consistently produce itself on totally unrelated dogs could take a lifetime......what you couldnt do over a lifetime though is just continually keep inbreeding so fresh blood must be brought in without risking losing what you already have hence breeders have been so selective about the cross they make trying to keep some form of shared heritage......if you look at certain bulldog peds you can clearly see the reasoning to the breedings made.....hybrid vigour doesnt always work out for the better and thats the risk in crossing dogs but when it does work out for the better it can produce some pretty awesome animals as has been proven. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOKEL 2,245 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Surely the best characteristics from two different breeds is the definition of hybrid vigour? some of the tight bred family lines of a.p.b.t. are almost their own breed, a breed within a breed if you will. so when you take two separate tight family's and cross them together it usally brings out the best in them (or worst as has already been stated). any tight family needs to be outcrossed every now and then or it will eventually kill itself... Yokel 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,121 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Surely the best characteristics from two different breeds is the definition of hybrid vigour? some of the tight bred family lines of a.p.b.t. are almost their own breed, a breed within a breed if you will. so when you take two separate tight family's and cross them together it usally brings out the best in them (or worst as has already been stated). any tight family needs to be outcrossed every now and then or it will eventually kill itself... Yokel Ive said many times show me another breed of dog that can carry 25% of dogs from 5 generations before them and still only have 4 toes on each paw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
South hams hunter 8,922 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Saluki/greys would be your best bet for that gnasher Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,121 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Saluki/greys would be your best bet for that gnasher a " breed " Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Surely the best characteristics from two different breeds is the definition of hybrid vigour? some of the tight bred family lines of a.p.b.t. are almost their own breed, a breed within a breed if you will. so when you take two separate tight family's and cross them together it usally brings out the best in them (or worst as has already been stated). any tight family needs to be outcrossed every now and then or it will eventually kill itself...Yokel Honestly with how true some tightly bred strains breed when it comes to both behavioural characteristics and physical conformation it's easy to start considering them as separate breeds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
South hams hunter 8,922 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Sorry gnash skimmed over it and missed the word breed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Silversnake 1,099 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I believe John P Colby only outcrossed once in his whole life and only because he was forced to as his gene pool was just too tight, and if what is true about the dogs he produced he definitely knew what he was doing. If anyone wants a blueprint of how to be a 'dogman' I would recommend to study this great man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 The working APBT is a "type" not a breed IMO.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGD 6,436 Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 I think over 100 years of breeding without any influence from other breeds qualifies the APBT as a breed in its own right. I save "type" for things like digging terriers that are often outcrossed. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOKEL 2,245 Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 The working APBT is a "type" not a breed IMO....I would say the true sporting bred apbt is one of, if not THE purest breed of dog going...Yokel 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogFox123 1,379 Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 I worded it wrong, the breed varies drastically between lines and individuals. form always follows function in working breeds and rightly so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKA-BRINDLE 879 Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hybrid vigour is a term used in the dog game when someone strikes it lucky on a cross breed...these pitbull threads always tend to be a bit blind leading the blind I couldnt disagree more strongly......to say that ace calibre dogs such as gr ch Mayday or infact closer to home an ace calibre dog like gr ch Nikki was produced via " a lucky strike " to me is an insult......yes there will of course be luck involved in any performance breeding but breeding is about stacking the odds in your favour and if you think men who have dedicated years to producing good dogs did so on the toss of a coin......i couldnt agree. Now im not a professor of pedigrees doing a degree on genetics at the university of gamedogology...but even i know a Hybrid is a cross of two similar species...within dogs its a cross of two breeds of dogs...the often used example being CH Stormer who was EBTXSBT..as he was a game individual who was far superior to his parents...people claim this as hybrid vigour...but if you was to repeat the breeding 100 times you probably wouldnt get the same result...thats why i said 'striking it lucky'...GrCh Nikki was a pure bred APBT she was not a hybrid...she was a BATTLE CROSS...bred from game proven APBTs of unrelated bloodlines...an example of a successful hybrid pit bitch would be rfc's GrCh Jenny...who had a lot of stafford blood on the bottom of her ped Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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