My lurchers first season, a learning process, but how to stop hunting on?

[ad22 1]

Hi all,

 

Let me tell you a bit about the start of my first season with my lurcher and the problems that have occured.

 

My lurcher is nearly a year old, she was a very bright and obedient puppy but since her season has become a little more strong willed and seems to think she knows best lol, she is a collie/greyhound/beardie/greyhoundxbull/greyhound. This is my first lurcher so I have lots to learn and unfortunately I don't know any other lurcher people so I have been going about it myself.

 

I have been taking her out since august, at first we went out at late evening (still light) when there were plenty of green young rabbits, she caught a couple of very young ones and about 10 with myxi on a holiday in wales but we didn't go lamping for a further month. The ground that I started her on was a horse riding club, lots of flat green grass that was very heavily populated with coney, but they were certainly rocket propelled!! In hindsight not the best ground to start a young dog on.

 

As the nights drew in and it started to get darker earlier, around mid september, I started taking a lamp with me and still going out at dusk and then kind of semi lamping in the first part of the night for maybe 20 minutes. It again wasn't the best approach and it was a month until she finally connected with a rocket propelled rabbit that we caught out along way from its warren, as it set back towards me and the warren it made a fatal mistake and decided to turn straight into my dogs awaiting jaws (she was running along side the rabbit at this point). I was over joyed and I could see how over the past couple of months she had learnt to read the rabbits and developed a running style.

 

A couple of nights later and back with the rocket propelled rabbits in the early but now dark part of the night, she caught her second fast mover in a very exciting course that went up and down the field, and eventually she caught the obviously very tired rabbit, which was by this point trying to hide in clumps of grass for just a moment until she had caught up and it realised that it was not concealed in the short cover, she put in a strike just as it was making it to the safety of the hedge and brought it back to me. I was delighted

 

A week or so later and now on some new ground, which was short stubble fields at the time, we crossed into a field through a gap in the hedge, and there was a bunny sitting munching on some grass shoots 50 yards away, it took off away from us towards an old quarry where a massive warren was, I thought that she had no chance, but at the last possible moment she managed to gain on the rabbit and put in a strike just ahead of its tail, she sumersaulted with this strike and laned with the rabbit firmly clamped in her jaws. Another new technique i was over the moon.

 

It is now nearly 2 months on, she has been through her season (female dog, heat kind of season) and she has caught a further 15 since, most of which have been in the past couple of weeks, she caught her first sitter last week, she took off to a small group of rabbits feeding on some winter wheat shoots 50 yards out, she showed no sign of slowing as the first and second rabbit jumped out the way and ran towards cover and i was baffeled at why she hadnt tried to turn, and then bam! She had her sights on a squatter and had put a deadly strike in before the coney could lift! Again i was very pleased!

 

On the last couple of outings she has shown another new trick, the first time was after a long course that resulted in many twists and turns, the rabbit reaches the long grasses by the hedge and disapears for a moment but my bitch sticks her head in and out comes the rabbit for a slower course along the hedge line before jumping into the hedge with my girl right behind it, she smashed into the hedge and pulled out the rabbit much to my delight, as when we first started going out on those summer evening she would pull up as soon as the rabbit looked like it was going to make it to cover.

 

I have always gone out for about an hour each trip as i haven't wanted to over do it and gone 2-3 times a week. In the summer she use to walk off the lead and was encouraged to range out a bit in front of me or "find em" in the long grasses, now I think about it that was maybe a bit of a mistake, it wasn't until when autumn came and we went out in the darkness with a lamp after her 1st real catch on the stubble field, that I started to use a slip lead through her collar so that I could pick which rabbits she ran, which I think I should have done from the start but I knew nothing of hunting with lurchers. It actually took me a while to work out what the slip lead i read about was! I tried those rope leads that are called slip leads and thought i must be doing it wrong! I even bought a fancy quick release coursing collar before I realised all i needed to do was thread a comfortable nylon rope through her collar

 

So now I have a bit of a problem that I have obviously created, after I have slipped her on a rabbit if she misses that rabbit she will hunt on for maybe a minute, putting all the sqautters to ground and running off in the wrong direction usualy miles out into the field to my annoyance, but i try to keep calm and wait for her to come back to plannet earth from her addrenalin rush, and then come back to me, so she can go back on her slip lead and we can carry on hunting.

She was becoming better and was starting to come back much quicker, although nothing like the "light off dog returns" i have read about.

 

A few trips or so ago after missing the intended rabbit, on her way back to me she put up and caught a rabbit that had been squatting in the darkness, and just as I thought she was beginig to see that the fun only occured after she had returned to me! On the last couple of trips out after missing her rabbit she has started running out far into the field nose down searching around for squatters, whilst all the actual squatters make their getaway whilst she is miles away.

 

Does anyone have any tips or ideas on how I can nip this in the bud as quickly as possible, it is obviously a serious no no.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and i am very grateful to have found such a great forum!.

Edited November 14, 2007 by ad22

[Tyla 3,179]

A really good post mate, i know how you feel. Mine is the same although younger. i think i started her too early so i have stopped taking her out and am letting her do the puppy thing first. She does everything well in training but the excitement of being on a rabbit causes her to do the same as yours, hunting on and infuriating me for a minute or two!

 

i am also without an experienced lurcher to help with training so i will be watching this thread with interest.

 

Good luck

[shagly 0]

hi ad22,

 

a good post i enjoyed reading it, my bitch is 2 now and started catching quite late on, i perservered and like you only took her out for an hour or so at a time and had a few runs, eventualy she seemed to just "click" and now catches on a regular basis. Her problem was that she was so excited on every run that i think she went at full pelt and seemed to over run them especialy as they turned, now she uses her head a bit more and sticks behind or to the side of them and strikes at the right time.

 

regarding her hunting up, she used to do this but i found the best bet was to walk away whilst calling her (i whistle quietly) she soon learned that i wasnt going to hang about for her and unless she came back to me she was going to be left in the field ! i have always let her run loose on a general evening walk round the lake where i live, she knows that she has to keep up as im not going to hang about for her. she will stop for a sniff about but is never far behind as she knows she has to follow me , not the other way round.

 

ferreting with her has been a diffrent ball game, from the first time i took her she was like a pro, marking burrows and hanging about waiting for the action, i guess that they are all diffrent and the best thing to do is work on there bad points, some things are more natural and come easier.

Edited November 14, 2007 by shagly

[beddiwhuppet 10]

hi mate the fun and games of lurchers eh :censored:i had the same problem just keep practising recalling her in even when out walking,i squeek my dog in as he has more chance of hearing it,its bad when the selective hearing kicks in just persivere,they will always have a sniff but the penny should drop eventually and fingers crossed start returning quicker with the tail wagging ready to go again,hope all goes well,

[dennned 172]

hi mate the fun and games of lurchers eh :censored:i had the same problem just keep practising recalling her in even when out walking,i squeek my dog in as he has more chance of hearing it,its bad when the selective hearing kicks in just persivere,they will always have a sniff but the penny should drop eventually and fingers crossed start returning quicker with the tail wagging ready to go again,hope all goes well,

sounds like you are doing ok, just remember that practise makes perfect,the good thing at least it does@nt yap

[ad22 1]

Thanks for the advice so far guys, its nice to know that it is a common problem. Hopefully she will settle down a bit.

 

Here is a pic of her as a pup about 6 months old, we were up on the welsh hills where we had some great first catches on some myxi rabbits, they could certainly run, but they didn't seem to be able to find their way to safety through the gaps under the fence due to them not being able to see properly. Ideal easy catches for a young dog i think.

[Guest SJM]

What your describing is a common problem to many people starting out with young dogs Youve got some ground thats well populated with rabbits, but when she misses thats when the problem arises, therefore what you need to do is try your best to reduce the amount of rabbits she misses. Pick and choose your bunnies, put the light off and walk by the ones you think she cant catch and concerntrate on those you feel confident she can. When she makes a catch, reward her with lots of praise when she brings the rabbit to you and dont forget, once youve took the rabbit off her and put her back on her slip ready for the next one, another wee pat on the head or a "good girl" doesnt go amiss. Some people just grab the rabbit off the dog and yank it back onto the lead and march off looking for the next one, without thinking that a dog in the wild would hunt, catch itself a rabbit, eat it and then have a nice long snooze, so to ask a dog to run many times in a night and bring the rabbit back and hand it over, and not submit to its urge to go off and do its own thing, requires effort on the dogs part, effort which should be rewarded.

 

A good recall is the basis of a lurchers basic training and must be established before you start hunting, but even the best trained dog can fall into bad habits as quickly, if not quicker than it can learn good ones. Try to pick the easiest rabbits and get your bitch into a pattern of catch, retreive, praise, back on lead, wee bit more praise, walk on a bit, same again, you want to build a bond of trust so she is looking to you to provide the light and carry the catch, and also she will get faith in you so that she knows she isnt being sent down the beam on a fools errand to rabbits that are out of her reach or allready well on their way before she gets near them.

 

The first season of a young lurchers life should be step by step simple catches gradually getting harder as the dog gets more mature and gains in confidence. If it loses a little confidence, retrace a step or two and build it up again.

 

Thats the best advice I can offer you, be wary which rabbits you set your bitch on, until you have built up a good bond of trust, and once you have, then you can start to run her on harder rabbits and she may surprise you

[Simoman 110]

Excellent reply

[ad22 1]

Thanks SJM good advice.

 

When we go out i would call it a good hours hunting when we get maybe 6-7 slips. Most evenings are more like be 3 though.

 

A couple of nights ago it was fairly windy, and we were out for an hour and had 6 of what i thought were good runs, we caught 2 rabbits both after good courses. She missed her chances on picking up whilst running and instead pulled them from cover.

 

She seems to be learning in stages and using one techniqe at a time, I can see that it is slowly coming together, she just needs to grab her opportunity whilst still running the rabbit and make her strike. She hasn't used her strike on fast movers for a while and on the last few outings has caught her rabbits by tiring them out over a long course and catching them when they have slowed down some.

 

She has caught fast sprinters before, but she has fallen over a couple of times when running at speed and trying to make the strike, she dropped a couple and also caught a couple as described with the summersault catch above. One day im sure it will all click and she will utilise all of her talents. I hope with time patience and catches like you have said she will stop her deafness and running around after loosing a rabbit.

 

I was given some controversial advice by a friend of a friend, he suggested using an electric shock collar when she chooses not to respond and she would then quickly choose to return to heel when called! Seems a bit severe to me and i worry she may associate something like that with running at rabbits in general and then refuse to run! Of course i wouldn't want to hurt her either.

 

Any thoughts or experiances with training dogs with shock collars?

[skycat 6,173]

Thanks SJM good advice.

 

When we go out i would call it a good hours hunting when we get maybe 6-7 slips. Most evenings are more like be 3 though.

 

A couple of nights ago it was fairly windy, and we were out for an hour and had 6 of what i thought were good runs, we caught 2 rabbits both after good courses. She missed her chances on picking up whilst running and instead pulled them from cover.

 

She seems to be learning in stages and using one techniqe at a time, I can see that it is slowly coming together, she just needs to grab her opportunity whilst still running the rabbit and make her strike. She hasn't used her strike on fast movers for a while and on the last few outings has caught her rabbits by tiring them out over a long course and catching them when they have slowed down some.

 

She has caught fast sprinters before, but she has fallen over a couple of times when running at speed and trying to make the strike, she dropped a couple and also caught a couple as described with the summersault catch above. One day im sure it will all click and she will utilise all of her talents. I hope with time patience and catches like you have said she will stop her deafness and running around after loosing a rabbit.

 

I was given some controversial advice by a friend of a friend, he suggested using an electric shock collar when she chooses not to respond and she would then quickly choose to return to heel when called! Seems a bit severe to me and i worry she may associate something like that with running at rabbits in general and then refuse to run! Of course i wouldn't want to hurt her either.

 

Any thoughts or experiances with training dogs with shock collars?

 

NO way!! that dog of yours looks like it has a bit of Collie in it: far too sensitive and intelligent to be treated with a shock collar for only doing what is natural. Read SJM's post again: that tells you everything you need to know! Believe me, once she understands what you want from her (if you have a good relationship with the dog, that is) she will start responding better and better.

Does she come in to call when you tell her to? I'll always sacrifice a few bunnies on early outings by calling the dog back to me if it decides to hunt on in the dark. There'll always be some for another night so I don't worry about making a noise to begin with: better to get the dog into the habit of coming back the minute you switch the beam off. You can also practice this on a playing field or even in the garden if you have room.

Throw a dummy, put the beam on it, send the dog to fetch it and call her in. Also try putting the beam on something that shows up, like a carrier bag or something, let the dog go to it to investigate then call her back again when you switch off the beam. You just need to get her into the habit of coming in when the lamp goes off: mine always want to hunt up to begin with as they've started off working in the daytime, but I always make sure their recall is spot on before I lamp them. That way if they miss a rabbit at night, a sharp call and they're back to me. It shouldn't take long for her to get the message: just keep at it.

[ad22 1]

Ok thanks alot skycat, i thought it was a bit severe for a normal problem. I dont mind loosing a few we are not serious pest controllers or anything. I will just keep on being calm with her and i'll try getting her use to beam off and back, sounds like a great idea to practice in the park with retrieving with the lamp, thanks!

 

Yes she comes back to call whenever we are out on walks etc. and she comes back pretty quickly most the time when we are out lamping aswell, it is since she caught a rabbit without aid of the lamp she has been searching around for a little longer than usual. Maybe i have made the problem sound worse than it really is. She runs out into the field nose down for no more than a minute before returning to me.

 

I have a very good relationship with my dog, she lives in with me and we understand each other brilliantly, I have always had pet dogs and I have never had such a close bond to a dog as I do with this one, she always does as she is told when we are out, but since her season she goes deaf at will when missing a rabbit. Not the biggest deal just a bit frustrating but it sounds like something that we will be able to work through. Its great to hear that other people have had the same problems.

Edited November 15, 2007 by ad22