Bloody Sheep!!!

[nothernlite 18,077]

I dont have hunting dogs but would it be useful to rent a field for a while and buy a few sheep so u got a place to train them without fear of the shotgun. If this is a expensive option ignore me

your ignored

[Welsh_red 4,630]

 

I dont have hunting dogs but would it be useful to rent a field for a while and buy a few sheep so u got a place to train them without fear of the shotgun. If this is a expensive option ignore me

your ignored

Duly noted

[terryd 8,393]

often thought it me self. Approach your local friendly farmer say if I give you a couple of hundred will you pop a couple of sheep in the smallish well fenced field for a couple months. Obviously explain why and the money would cover the sheep in the unlikely event of a real disaster

You can't go terrorising the poor sheep daily they will be on valium by the time you finish but if your dogs not too bad and just needs steadying and testing maybe.

Then again could be a complete waste of time when his rock steady with them two but sees a little flock going over the brow of hill in a different situation

Personally I am just going to get mine around different sheep in different places at every chance

[delboy_187 902]

Your obviously not hitting the cnut hard enough lol

[foxbolter 447]

Neil clown

[foxbolter 447]

I love walking dogs on Beddgelert with scaby sheep every where and they wont touch sheep a mile away from me just hunt rabbits and mountain rats

[rodders85 6]

 

When you look at people who compete there dogs in trials training never stops, it's a constant thing. No different with any dog really, always topping up there training

 

I spent many an hour in the company of and watching a very good trainer of working and trial sheepdogs.The things he could do with his charges held me spellbound and i put all this new found knowledge into 3 pups i bred,by the time they were 8 months old i had them retrieving,waiting,in sight or out of,moving left,right,forward and behind,running to a gate and waiting etc.,all independant of each other.The bloody pups were a joy to behold,alas i ruined 2 of them,when i got around to the serious stage of their education,the chase and catch,they were totally dependant on me for command and nearly useless as ratching about dogs that needed their instincts to solve some of the scenario,s they encountered,they ended up with lads that made use of them for lamping,the 3rd one,the only bitch fared better,yet was a pale shadow of the dogs it was bred from.I now train them with the most basic of command structure,the rest they are better learning themselves,when its needed.

I see what you mean. Too much training and focus on the handler, can stop it concentrating on its job and also with the constant perfection being sought all the corrections could lead to a lack of confidence in the dog to go on and use its own brain and instinct as it's too used to being told what to do. Duly noted morton.

As long as the basics are to a good standard, good foundation to move on.

[bird 9,872]

 

 

When you look at people who compete there dogs in trials training never stops, it's a constant thing. No different with any dog really, always topping up there training

I spent many an hour in the company of and watching a very good trainer of working and trial sheepdogs.The things he could do with his charges held me spellbound and i put all this new found knowledge into 3 pups i bred,by the time they were 8 months old i had them retrieving,waiting,in sight or out of,moving left,right,forward and behind,running to a gate and waiting etc.,all independant of each other.The bloody pups were a joy to behold,alas i ruined 2 of them,when i got around to the serious stage of their education,the chase and catch,they were totally dependant on me for command and nearly useless as ratching about dogs that needed their instincts to solve some of the scenario,s they encountered,they ended up with lads that made use of them for lamping,the 3rd one,the only bitch fared better,yet was a pale shadow of the dogs it was bred from.I now train them with the most basic of command structure,the rest they are better learning themselves,when its needed.

I see what you mean. Too much training and focus on the handler, can stop it concentrating on its job and also with the constant perfection being sought all the corrections could lead to a lack of confidence in the dog to go on and use its own brain and instinct as it's too used to being told what to do. Duly noted morton.

As long as the basics are to a good standard, good foundation to move on.

 

the thing different here above is the dogs are sheep dogs, so will be expected to run around sheep, and encouraged to do so . where your running dog not got a different job . As said the real test for running dog is when the sheep moving about /running then you know if all the training paid off. . if you can get the dog oblivious to the sheep meaning that the sheep are nothing to them . you have cracked it I train my pups right in amongst them , few recalls sit/stay , and another good one is play with the dog there, throw the ball amongst the sheep, if the sheep scatter a bit the better. once the dog used to seeing them grazing/ running about you should be ok with sheep no prob . But as ive said before you carnt trust any dog 100% with sheep, some dogs that's been around sheep 8-9 years never no prob, have out of the blue killed a sheep , even collies that working sheep 24/7 have killed them I was told that one day by a farmer , with them dogs you give them good hiding , and hopefully it wont happen again , but if it did well that's the end of them, after all there just dogs , with instinct to kill sheep, there not machines , and even machines as we all know can go wrong now+ then

[rodders85 6]

I'm not disagreeing with giving it a lesson it won't forget. When I had my spaniel at a gun dog training she became a whines . Won't sit still fror long without starting. I was told then that when she whines give her a lesson she'll never forget but if it don't work don't do it again. She still whines though fricking thing. I know sheep worrying is world's apart and would still give a dog a tough lesson if I had too. I'm not saying that a good foundation is all you need but you need it before you start doing the training you did around sheep. You obviously put a lot time in to stock breaking your dogs the best you can and this is possibly what this lad hasn't done.

Edited August 1, 2015 by rodders85

[skycat 6,173]

 

When you look at people who compete there dogs in trials training never stops, it's a constant thing. No different with any dog really, always topping up there training

I spent many an hour in the company of and watching a very good trainer of working and trial sheepdogs.The things he could do with his charges held me spellbound and i put all this new found knowledge into 3 pups i bred,by the time they were 8 months old i had them retrieving,waiting,in sight or out of,moving left,right,forward and behind,running to a gate and waiting etc.,all independant of each other.The bloody pups were a joy to behold,alas i ruined 2 of them,when i got around to the serious stage of their education,the chase and catch,they were totally dependant on me for command and nearly useless as ratching about dogs that needed their instincts to solve some of the scenario,s they encountered,they ended up with lads that made use of them for lamping,the 3rd one,the only bitch fared better,yet was a pale shadow of the dogs it was bred from.I now train them with the most basic of command structure,the rest they are better learning themselves,when its needed.

 

IMO should be carried out in the field at the same time you expose a pup to everything it is likely to encounter as an adult; well, almost everything, not all types of game obviously. I made a huge mistake once of rearing a lurcher pup alongside pet rabbits running loose in the garden. That poor dog chased wild rabbits, but it took her ages before she realised that she was actually allowed to pick them up, and even when she did, she carried them back to me looking very worried, for a long time.

Once upon a time I had exceptionally well trained dogs. I could drop them off one by one as I walked on, then call them up again, the farthest away first, so it had to come past dogs lying and staying. All sorts of daft things. But I did it in a sort of working situation, in the places I mooched and rabbited by day. So the dogs never got to just focusing on me for direction, but they were responsive enough to do as they were told even when they knew there were rabbits about in the cover. I still make them walk to heel odd times when we're out, past cattle, people etc, and wait to go through gates etc, but the fine-tuning I used to do went by the wayside a long time ago. As long as they come, retrieve, wait on command that's all I ask of them these days

[rodders85 6]

 

 

When you look at people who compete there dogs in trials training never stops, it's a constant thing. No different with any dog really, always topping up there training

 

I spent many an hour in the company of and watching a very good trainer of working and trial sheepdogs.The things he could do with his charges held me spellbound and i put all this new found knowledge into 3 pups i bred,by the time they were 8 months old i had them retrieving,waiting,in sight or out of,moving left,right,forward and behind,running to a gate and waiting etc.,all independant of each other.The bloody pups were a joy to behold,alas i ruined 2 of them,when i got around to the serious stage of their education,the chase and catch,they were totally dependant on me for command and nearly useless as ratching about dogs that needed their instincts to solve some of the scenario,s they encountered,they ended up with lads that made use of them for lamping,the 3rd one,the only bitch fared better,yet was a pale shadow of the dogs it was bred from.I now train them with the most basic of command structure,the rest they are better learning themselves,when its needed.

IMO should be carried out in the field at the same time you expose a pup to everything it is likely to encounter as an adult; well, almost everything, not all types of game obviously. I made a huge mistake once of rearing a lurcher pup alongside pet rabbits running loose in the garden. That poor dog chased wild rabbits, but it took her ages before she realised that she was actually allowed to pick them up, and even when she did, she carried them back to me looking very worried, for a long time.

Once upon a time I had exceptionally well trained dogs. I could drop them off one by one as I walked on, then call them up again, the farthest away first, so it had to come past dogs lying and staying. All sorts of daft things. But I did it in a sort of working situation, in the places I mooched and rabbited by day. So the dogs never got to just focusing on me for direction, but they were responsive enough to do as they were told even when they knew there were rabbits about in the cover. I still make them walk to heel odd times when we're out, past cattle, people etc, and wait to go through gates etc, but the fine-tuning I used to do went by the wayside a long time ago. As long as they come, retrieve, wait on command that's all I ask of them these days

I agree with you skycat. My pup has the basics. Now I train while I walk him. Sit and stay a couple of times getting further, as I plan to ferret with him. walk around a bit that kind of thing. When off the lead calling him in a few times reinforcing recall with plenty praise. Giving a turn whistle and changing direction so he knows, jumping obstacles and a touch of heal work, just basic obedience. He needs to be under control. I walk him past sheep and through sheep but I'm in no rush to let him off the lead near them yet. As a beginner with a lurcher and working dogs I think I'm better off taking my time, and getting a strong foundation, even if it means him looking to me a bit more for direction. I'd rather that than an out of control dog. Most of you lads were brought up with it and have plenty experience. Just starting is tough as there's alot that can go wrong. It's hard to learn from mistakes you haven't made yet.

[skycat 6,173]

The only real mistake you can make is one that damages the relationship between you and your dog. All other 'mistakes' are just part of the learning curve. But always allow a pup 'free time' where it can go and explore and potter about looking for scent, finding interesting stuff in a place where you know it can't come to any harm or disappear over the horizon. It needs to learn things for itself as well, which is why ferreting is such a good place to start, for a pup can self-correct any mistakes it makes in a working situation and it will learn without you having to tell it what to do. The biggest mistake someone can make out ferreting is to make a pup sit and stay in the place that you have decided is best. The pup learns nothing from this except that you are a horrible spoil sport.

[Wales1234 5,490]

Had my pup out again she was storming through some rush with my old bitch two sheep shot out turned her head and carried on don't mind her checking what's bolted so happy days just gone keep repeating now till I confident in her to hunt on with the other bitches

[bird 9,872]

The only real mistake you can make is one that damages the relationship between you and your dog. All other 'mistakes' are just part of the learning curve. But always allow a pup 'free time' where it can go and explore and potter about looking for scent, finding interesting stuff in a place where you know it can't come to any harm or disappear over the horizon. It needs to learn things for itself as well, which is why ferreting is such a good place to start, for a pup can self-correct any mistakes it makes in a working situation and it will learn without you having to tell it what to do. The biggest mistake someone can make out ferreting is to make a pup sit and stay in the place that you have decided is best. The pup learns nothing from this except that you are a horrible spoil sport.

I agree penny your are right, you don't want to damage that bond you have with your dog or dogs . But in this instance if a dog had a go at a sheep either chase them or grab one, well I am afraid a good hiding is what they will get, and if it breaks the bond so be it . My 2 dogs are very sensitive temps, fck me Buck more than Bryn is lol, it kid gloves job with him, you can up set him very easy , and yet in the field he is very full on he got more grit in him than Bryn ever had , he big strange thing .lol when he was younger he had go at a sheep , and he been round them every day, one got up as he was on his way back from a run on another quarry . I got to him give him good hiding he did cry out , but the lesson went in ive lamped through sheep many time and just focusses on his quarry nothing else I hate doing it to a dog more so when you know there sensitive nature , but the instinct to chase+ kill sheep is very strong in any breed of dog ,you can never trust any dog 100% , and we forget at times that all they are is just a dog , not a machine , and as said on here machines can go wrong .

[paulsmithy83 567]

Around here you will have a dead dog if not broken to sheep. No chasing herding attacking all is a bullet on keepered ground. I start them young 9 weeks old and everyday without fail will see livestock with collar round kneck. Nothing intense just a reminder there not worth a chase. All mine will hunt through sheep and are bullet proof and no bond is broken.