Victor 120-2 Is Illegal.. Update On Use.

[unclepesta 101]

hi folks

 

update.. i just received a email from natural england changing there mind on the 120-2 and all similar DOUBLE SPRINGED which otherwise would be classed as clones if the 120-2 was legal.

 

the 120-2 is now classed as illegal so im pissed right off.. traps ive had for years now out of service.. i think they need to amend as the 120-2 is a equivalent with just a extra spring so its better in strength.. but here's the email and im waiting on a call from NE so i will update more asap when i know more.. but this email says it all.

 

the email is here its a exact copy and paste minus my name.

 

Further to my email of 11 June 2015, I have now reconsidered the position with regard to the Victor Conibear 120-2.

Under Sec 2 of the Spring Traps Approval (England) Order 2012, any spring trap which is equivalent in all relevant respects to a spring trap of a type and make specified in any entry in Column 1 of the Schedule, is approved. A spring trap is equivalent in all relevant respects to a spring trap of a type and make specified in the Schedule if it corresponds to the spring trap so specified in construction, in materials, in impact force or momentum, and in all other respects which are relevant to its effect or manner of operation as a trap.

The Victor Conibear 120-2 consists of 2 springs whereas the BMI Magnum 116consists of only one. The construction of the Victor Conibear 120-2 is therefore at variance to that of the BMI Magnum 116, which means it cannot be regarded as ‘equivalent in all relevant respects’.

I hope this helps

Kind regards

 

 

[J Darcy 5,871]

But the victor 110 would still be legal, as would the bellisle, bridge and duke 110's under the clone ruling.

[EDDIE B 3,162]

But the victor 110 would still be legal, as would the bellisle, bridge and duke 110's under the clone ruling.

Hmmmm! Wonder are all these traps as powerful as the Magnum 110? I mean, the cheap Fenn types are seen as illegal mainly due to inferior spring power, so what about Bodygrip types?

 

Another thing! How easy, or hard would it be to remove one of the Victor 120-2 springs, for those of you that already have some?

[unclepesta 101]

But the victor 110 would still be legal, as would the bellisle, bridge and duke 110's under the clone ruling.

yes the only one i would check is the belise due to slight difference in jaw shape. they seem to be wanting exacts any visual difference is a possible no no...the bureaucracy in trapping and snaring is not helping im not happy with all these grey areas. i myself would say yes to belise but due to slight differences i wouldnt use em with risk of someone pointing out its not a bmi bodygrip or a exact clone.. anyone who uses dukes bmi ect would know straight away the difference with belise if they came across one.

[unclepesta 101]

 

But the victor 110 would still be legal, as would the bellisle, bridge and duke 110's under the clone ruling.

Hmmmm! Wonder are all these traps as powerful as the Magnum 110? I mean, the cheap Fenn types are seen as illegal mainly due to inferior spring power, so what about Bodygrip types?

 

Another thing! How easy, or hard would it be to remove one of the Victor 120-2 springs, for those of you that already have some?

 

removal of one spring would do it as long as the other spring was 116 strength not 110.. for mink in uk. so its good enough for ireland to remove one spring here im doubtful as it would just be a 110 power not 116 power.

[unclepesta 101]

but

 

 

 

But the victor 110 would still be legal, as would the bellisle, bridge and duke 110's under the clone ruling.

Hmmmm! Wonder are all these traps as powerful as the Magnum 110? I mean, the cheap Fenn types are seen as illegal mainly due to inferior spring power, so what about Bodygrip types?

Another thing! How easy, or hard would it be to remove one of the Victor 120-2 springs, for those of you that already have some?

 

removal of one spring would do it as long as the other spring was 116 strength not 110.. for mink in uk. so its good enough for ireland to remove one spring here im doubtful as it would just be a 110 power not 116 power.

 

but yes removal would be ok if just wanting 110's and 110 power.

[J Darcy 5,871]

 

But the victor 110 would still be legal, as would the bellisle, bridge and duke 110's under the clone ruling.

yes the only one i would check is the belise due to slight difference in jaw shape. they seem to be wanting exacts any visual difference is a possible no no...the bureaucracy in trapping and snaring is not helping im not happy with all these grey areas. i myself would say yes to belise but due to slight differences i wouldnt use em with risk of someone pointing out its not a bmi bodygrip or a exact clone.. anyone who uses dukes bmi ect would know straight away the difference with belise if they came across one.

 

But would the slight difference in shape have any effect on it not being a clone? The jaws actually mesh together a little tighter on a belisle than on a BMI, the trigger has a slight different shape, but the jaw size and spring strength is very similar to the BMI,.....whether this is a clone or not is clearly a grey area then......my take is that it is a clone.

[unclepesta 101]

jd i feel the same as you really but i think with the slight differences i would be careful of meeting some smart alec on a problem set.. the extra spring i would have seen as a improvement of strength but it didnt matter it was different to the 116. its certainly in a grey area for these slight differences concerning belise even if there done for the better, i personally dont own any belise but it would be good to get one sent in for a definite confirmation.

[J Darcy 5,871]

Reading again, it is reasonable to assume that the slightly curved corners of the Belisle, when compared to the BMI, would not affect it at all. The clone wording uses the word 'relevant', and IMO it is a reasonable stance to say that the slight differences are not relevant to alter the performance of the trap to the detriment of the target species. I will take a couple of piccys for those who have not compared the two...

[J Darcy 5,871]

The three B's; Belisle, Bridger, BMI......

[J Darcy 5,871]

Is this difference relevant?

[J Darcy 5,871]

Now, what needs to be answered is; who put the 120-2 on the 'clone' list by naming them specifically and, WHY?

[unclepesta 101]

i myself would say yes but i reckon some ejjit might try and say the jaw difference matters no matter if its for or against a better trap. the bmi and bridger have clearly similar jaw dimensions. the belise has different angles. m shape is magnum thats what they will see. but im hoping your right jd and my opinion is wrong.. im playing the devils advocate, some visit at a set gets heated with some official or something, they could be picky if you get what i mean. let the courts decide they say is the usual thing most get in such arguements. im gonna sit back for a bit and see what others think.

[EDDIE B 3,162]

But then you have Bridger and Duke streight, or regular jaw, as well as Magnum style jaw! Can make things even more complicated to put into legislation!

[unclepesta 101]

look at this.. duke 116 on the stao... but for greys no mention of mink and its a 116.. more confusion.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/1427/made