Wrong In So Many Ways

[THE STIFFMEISTER 16,112]

Some nonsense spouted on here...,let's have it right, the Provos had a fair bit of weaponry at their disposal, SAMs, barretts etc so why were they not used......

 

Very very simple really, it's the threat of them that is more useful, the idea of helicopters being leathered willy nilly is a useful tool to have for propaganda, the reality of two or three being dropped then having a Hereford fire team abseiling into your Armagh farmhouse at 3 in the morning puts all that to bed....the republicans need to dry their eyes and move on...for every Bloody Sunday, there is a kingsmill, where's their enquiry at?

 

It's very fitting that 9/ 11 happened, as it put all this nonsense into perspective for the jolly paddy yanks , all that Noraid money dried up and the cause was finished bar the shouting, the gfa became Sanskrit then, no budging left

 

But this idea that the Provos bogged down the army in a dirty war seems to have become common thinking amongst that community...you fought with no rules, we did....if you didn't go off crying to European court of human rights all the tim demanding collusion investigations and the like smacks of an organisation at their nadir.

 

Let's have it right, everyone was known who was doing what, but for the Brits , it became unpalatable to continue....

 

Blowing up young lads in Warrington will be your heroes legacy....tiocfaidh ar la anyone?

[THE STIFFMEISTER 16,112]

Ps I have no umbridge with Adams and mcguiness and R o'b

 

They came and sat down when they realised it was a no win situation, in fact their is something about irish republicanism that is darkly comic to me, Adams voice being banned, prisoners wearing Man Utd and Liverpool shirts, the sense of righteous injustice stretching back to the potato famine and the battle of the boyne....its funny if it wasn't so tragic....I can't believe not one person said...hang on, this is f***ing stupid......or did the idea of being a big man with an ak and being able to take funds from hard working men and women on pay day prove too enticing ?

 

Cowards.

[nans pat 2,575]

Ps I have no umbridge with Adams and mcguiness and R o'b

 

They came and sat down when they realised it was a no win situation, in fact their is something about irish republicanism that is darkly comic to me, Adams voice being banned, prisoners wearing Man Utd and Liverpool shirts, the sense of righteous injustice stretching back to the potato famine and the battle of the boyne....its funny if it wasn't so tragic....I can't believe not one person said...hang on, this is f***ing stupid......or did the idea of being a big man with an ak and being able to take funds from hard working men and women on pay day prove too enticing ?

 

Cowards.

if adams n mcguiness were lurchers they would be classed as jackers, there outta the game now,some kid now at primary school probably take it up in another 10,15 yrs,there can be only 1 settlement as irish history proves,,hope it doesnt come to that as in 15,20 yrs 50per.cent plus 1 vote settles it,cant hold the tide back,no bit of earths wort dieing for.imo

[norseman 424]

I understand all this greater good malarkey.

 

What I don't understand is the "peace" this has achieved. For peace, surely you need to have war in the first place. A few nailbombs here and there isn't a war. His promise not to order any more cowardly attacks on shoppers and people who can't defend themselves in return for a good job, decent salary, immunity from prosecution and audiences with royalty is not a peace process - it's blackmail or extortion however you want to dress it up.

 

I hope it's not the thin end of the wedge and we're going to be "pals" with all manner of scumbags "for the greater good."

 

I hope Charles at least had shit on his fingers when he shook hands.

some shite waffled on here. the british ordered their share of cowardly attacks on innocent people who couldnt defend themselves either lets not forget. oh thats right no one talks about that

[stop.end 4,082]

Lol not one person asked why Mountbatten was a regular visitor to kincora boys home, and every other boys child homes were serious sexual abuse was taking place along with saville and heath? Also there was rumours in IReland at the time mi5 actually done him because of his dirty deeds which were just about to come out.....

 

 

 

 

BY MICHAEL COLLINS PIPER

 

FOR CENTURIES THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT have tried to suppress and exterminate their neighbours the Irish. But that’s all ancient history, isn’t it? Unfortunately, no. A formerly secret document outlines a brazen plan by the British government to commit what can only be described, in international legal context, as genocide against the Protestant and Catholic populations of the British mini-statelet of Northern Ireland, created in 1921.

 

BY MICHAEL COLLINS PIPER

 

Admirers of Britain’s ruling class will have a tough time explaining away a shocking top-secret document from July 1, 1972 released in 2003 by Britain’s Public Records Office. The 21-page document, or appendix—of which there were only 10 copies produced—was a closely held “contingency plan” by the then-government of “Conservative” British Prime Minister Edward Heath (PM from June 19, 1970 to March 4, 1974).

 

The plan would have ordered the forcible removal of 200,000 to 300,000 Irish Catholics out of Northern Ireland and into the Republic of Ireland. Protestants would also be forced to migrate. A total of one-third of Northern Ireland’s population would be shuffled around.

 

The appendix states categorically that such a plan could not be accomplished peacefully and would require complete ruthlessness “in the use of force.”

 

The document, Redrawing the Border and Population

 

Transfer, was signed by Sir Burke Trend, Heath’s cabinet secretary (in office from 1963 to 1973). It was written jointly by representatives of the foreign secretary, the defence secretary and the British secretary for Northern Ireland, among others.

 

Evidently, the British rulers did not bother consulting with Ireland’s prime minister, Jack Lynch (served 1966-1977), about the drastic measure, nor with Catholic or Protestant leaders.

 

The officials advised Heath: “We have, as requested, considered the possibility of redrawing the border with the republic and effecting compulsory transfers of population within Northern Ireland or from Northern Ireland to the republic.”

 

Under the terms of this scheme, which the drafters said should be considered only in case of an “extremely grave emergency,” London’s ruling class intended to cede some territory on the border to the Irish Republic, from which land some 200,000 Protestants would then be moved into what remained of British Northern Ireland. At the same time, some 300,000 Catholics would be forced into the Republic of Ireland.

 

British officials noted that “military planning [was] well in hand” for the purpose of effecting the dual transfers, but recognized that there was the possibility of “outrage from the United States and other British allies” and that the scheme would be problematic in terms of implementation.

 

However, the fact remains that the so-called “democratic” government of Britain was actually considering such a plan. The only reason the plan was rejected was due to practical grounds, rather than any principled objection to the forced resettlement of half a million people.

 

Had the plan been carried out, both the Irish Catholics and the Irish Protestants could have charged the British government with genocide under the terms of the international Genocide Convention.

Genocide is defined in the convention as the commission of any of a number of enumerated acts “with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.”

 

The acts specifically cited in implementing legislation for the convention include killing, inflicting serious bodily injury, or causing mental impairment through torture or drugs of members of the group.

 

Also cited is the subjection of the victimized group to conditions of life designed to bring about its demise, restricting births within the group or transferring, by force, children of the group to another group.

 

Certainly, the forced and forced transfer of the Irish people would therefore constitute the crime of genocide.

 

It is interesting to note that in 1999, the Tony Blair government of Britain faked “outrage” over allegations that the Yugoslavian government of Slobodan Milosevic had drawn up a plan to forcibly relocate Kosovo’s ethnic Albanian population.

 

No evidence of this claimed plan, designated “Operation Horseshoe,” was ever presented.

 

Yet the British ruling class asserted that the very possibility of the existence of such a plan justified NATO’s ensuing bombardment of Yugoslavia, which inevitably killed at least 500 civilians (some sources say 1,200 to 5,700).

 

There has been no call by the present British government for the 1972 British genociders to be held to account.

[THE STIFFMEISTER 16,112]

 

I understand all this greater good malarkey.

 

What I don't understand is the "peace" this has achieved. For peace, surely you need to have war in the first place. A few nailbombs here and there isn't a war. His promise not to order any more cowardly attacks on shoppers and people who can't defend themselves in return for a good job, decent salary, immunity from prosecution and audiences with royalty is not a peace process - it's blackmail or extortion however you want to dress it up.

 

I hope it's not the thin end of the wedge and we're going to be "pals" with all manner of scumbags "for the greater good."

 

I hope Charles at least had shit on his fingers when he shook hands.

 

some shite waffled on here. the british ordered their share of cowardly attacks on innocent people who couldnt defend themselves either lets not forget. oh thats right no one talks about that

 

Where

[norseman 424]

bloody sunday in my hometown for one, the ballymurphy massacre, thats just two off the top of my head. unarmed civi's.

 

if your on about specific locations? they happened in derry/londonderry and belfast. im sure theres plenty more.

[THE STIFFMEISTER 16,112]

maybe we can play some maudlin irish lilting air to romanticise those gallant heroes of the P I R A

 

On second thoughts here is a dose of reality

 

[nans pat 2,575]

yes mountbatten was a well known nonce,that lad maxwell who was killed on the boat his parents were visited by 2 men one night about 6months before the operation and were advised to keep their son away from him, now the army council of the ra denied they sent them and why would they tell them that knowing the op was on,,some dirty tricks went on with peoples lives at stake,,was it worth 100s of thousands of yrs in jail,3000oddlives lost,was it f##k,

[norseman 424]

i never once said the IRA were heroes, nor will i ever. but the british and irish must admit their faults! end of.

[DannyMc 143]

Those weapons were not used because by the time that heavy stuff started coming in the leadership were already pushing towards a mainly political path. 1986 Ard Fheis and after. The areas that these weapon were to be used were saturated with army so not easy to use and get away clean with the gear. But it was used.

 

The same group of people who were attacking helicopters in the early 90s where the same ones who blew up the docklands in 96,guess the lads from Hereford must of wet into the wrong farmhouse.

 

As far as Kingsmills goes,there has been a H.E.T inquiry,same as bloody Sunday had saville inquiry. A current independent inquiry,same as bloody Sunday. And there has been apologies from both sides. Keep up.

 

By 2001 it was all over and wasn't it great for the people who had to endure it, everyday. Wouldn't disagree that it put a different perspective on things for some yanks,but by that stage Sinn Vein where the wealthiest northern political party by some stretch. Don't forget the northern bank robbery a couple years later. Very wealthy indeed.

 

Fuckall to do with the Brits palate,they enjoyed the dirty griminess of this conflict,in many cases they picked and chose who lived and who died. It ended because the people didn't want it any anymore,maybe couldn't even stomach it, attacks on financial centres played there part,"you can kill our soldiers but don't f**k with our money".

 

Julie Livingstone and many more worldwide will be your legacy.

Edited May 23, 2015 by DannyMc

[DannyMc 143]

Bye the way I'm not saying killing anyone is right,this guy never lived in this he's only going by what 'big jock' told him,after he gave him a mickey rub down behind the reccy hut. Any opinion or arguement that comes from a loyalist or Unionist is credible in my eyes,1st hand opinions.

[THE STIFFMEISTER 16,112]

Those weapons were not used because by the time that heavy stuff started coming in the leadership were already pushing towards a mainly political path. 1986 Ard Fheis and after. The areas that these weapon were to be used were saturated with army so not easy to use and get away clean with the gear. But it was used.

The same group of people who were attacking helicopters in the early 90s where the same ones who blew up the docklands in 96,guess the lads from Hereford must of wet into the wrong farmhouse.

As far as Kingsmills goes,there has been a H.E.T inquiry,same as bloody Sunday had saville inquiry. A current independent inquiry,same as bloody Sunday. And there has been apologies from both sides. Keep up.

By 2001 it was all over and wasn't it great for the people who had to endure it, everyday. Wouldn't disagree that it put a different perspective on things for some yanks,but by that stage Sinn Vein where the wealthiest northern political party by some stretch. Don't forget the northern bank robbery a couple years later. Very wealthy indeed.

Fuckall to do with the Brits palate,they enjoyed the dirty griminess of this conflict,in many cases they picked and chose who lived and who died. It ended because the people didn't want it any anymore,maybe couldn't even stomach it, attacks on financial centres played there part,"you can kill our soldiers but don't f**k with our money".

Julie Livingstone and many more worldwide will be your legacy.

 

Your not getting the point....you had hundreds of SAMs available , what went wrong?

 

The simple fact is that the SA unit knew that once these were used, the retaliations would be costly ...

 

War is about using weapons at your disposal and when the Sa Asu had a huge arsenal, they moved to bombing and home made mortars...personally I would say they had the chance to kick the Brits out of Armagh....and they bottled it...

 

As for the wrong farmhouse...look at the kicking that sniper team got at their arrest...it's widely stAted that if the peelers hadn't been therein the raid, they would have been done Gibraltar style...

 

And rightly so...

 

Live by the gun, , die by the gun ...that's the thing the provisionals couldn't handle, a dirty war means exactly that, but I guess it's warming to know that when your singing Kevin Barry on Easter week, there's always a little part of Ireland that is forever england

[DannyMc 143]

Hundreds of SAMs!!!! Its the Provo's were talking about here stiffy not the Russian military. Jane report says only 7 were decommissioned so that's still hundreds of SAMs unaccounted for in Ireland. Seriously,what the fcuk are you on.

 

S.A had been highly active for twenty years up to that point,the hard retribution was slow in its manifestation.

 

War is about using strategy. Mortars and roadside bombs had worked for S.A. Why change.

 

The sniper arrest couldn't have been any different to Gibraltar,pandemonium it was, with men getting chased into fields. It wasn't until they were securely detained that they were handed over to the R.U.C,who came on the scene after detainment. More shite talk.

 

How do you know the North will always remain part of the U.K? I think your wrong. One thing I do know is that itl never be achieved by force.

So there you go again talking absolute bollocks. Told ya we run rings around yous.

[Francie 6,368]

Stop end, do you think mountbatten, was a nonce, an his own got rid....