Bye Bye Hmr!

[Deker 3,478]

In my personal opinion Born, I think that's what it really is.

 

I don't think it's impossible to solve on the face of it based on what we think we know the problem is. I think it more comes down to economics.

 

Potentially, when you look at those xray machines, at least one of which claims it can spot defects in single links of chain on the fly, I can't see in principle why such a machine could not detect cracks in case heads in the same manner before they reached the filling station and simply divert affected cases into a recycling bin for smelting and reprocessing. I think the likely issue is cost.

 

Why don't you stop thinking and guessing and ASK CCI?

 

It is patently obvious YOU (not WE) have decided what the problem is, and for someone who hasn't even got a FAC or own a HMR, I find it rather interesting that single handed, you have solved the HMR ammo problem that the manufacturers haven't in well over 10 years.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Deker

[Born Hunter 17,775]

Assuming split cases leading to water ingress is the cause of the problem......

 

A bullet isn't a particularly complex piece of technology, if someone can diagnose the cause of the problem I'm sure someone else can develop a QC procedure that fixes it. These things usually happen when someone in management gets twitchy about the financial implications.....

 

I suspect the solution is expensive and not worth it for the relatively few failures.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Born Hunter

[dadioles 68]

To put things in perspective, I have heard that sales of HMR ammunition are in excess of 5 million rounds per annum in the UK alone. What it could be worldwide will be a very big number indeed. HMR ammunition is far more consistent than .22lr and in my view is quite a remarkable piece of ammunition. It certainly has its place alongside my .22lr rifles. Different tools for different jobs.

 

Unfortunately it has become fashionable to bash the HMR and yet I rather expect that it is possibly one of the safest and accurate cartridges on the market, particularly when you take into account the training and skills of many users.

[Tremo 138]

I guess that you could call it the Marmite Calibre. You either love it, or you don't love it. Simple. Everything comes down to personal choice.

 

I've owned one, and I class my self as a non-lover of the HMR. It wasn't for me for many reasons, and not just the possible safety issue that we have been discussing in this thread.

 

Whether or not it is seen as a fashionable thing to give it a bashing I couldn't tell you., One thing that I believe in though is that for someone to earn the right bash (or promote) this product, he/her should be in a position where they have had significant experience with the calibre.

[IanB 0]

 

 

 

 

We all need reminding from time to time that these (and I include sub 12ft lb air rifles) are lethal weapons that need to be treated with respect.

Don't see how this fits in the discussion on the safety of using the HMR.

 

The rifle should be lethal on its quarry, not on its user....

Simple.... Many of us, and I include myself, get a bit complacent after a few years incident free shooting. It takes an accident like the one described to wake us up a bit.

 

If the shooter concerned was paying more attention, he would have noticed that a shot did not sound quite right and not fired a second round until investigating what happened to the first. It would only take a moment to remove the bolt and take a look up the barrel. How many people take a cleaning rod with them "just in case" (or even use one!!). My rods stay at home, they would probably get bent in the car. So if I was not sure about a blockage in the barrel that would be the end of my day's shooting.

 

It is really easy, if you are slightly careless (I have done this too) especially at night, to touch the barrel on the ground and block the end with some mud.

 

Most shooters learn by doing. They are effectively self taught. We learn by our mistakes and by reading forums like this one learn from each other.

 

All rifles have the potential to be lethal on the user, it is our care and skill that ensures that it is only lethal on the quarry.

 

Last year I inspected hundreds of hmr rounds for split cases and found quite a lot with cracked necks caused when they were formed (poorly annealed). It is not a problem and it is well understood. The cracked ones were just as accurate as the non-cracked ones and chrono readings were also the same. My only concern is that if stored in poor conditions the powder may get damp and clump together and that could cause a poor detonation causing the bullet to stay in the barrel. Tip colour is also a myth, the production line uses different colour for different brands and sometimes has too much of one colour so mixes it up. No secrets there either.

 

As shooters we may store our ammunition properly but who knows what some dealers or wholesalers get up to. I expect some shooters probably store their ammunition in less than ideal conditions.

Let's be honest, the initial fault lies with the ammunition, squib rounds, cracks in brass, bullets jammed in barrel, it shouldn't happen, full stop, I've never had any other rifle I own do this, it's easy to say , pay more attention, but when night shooting, When your using a lot of rounds off the belt, it's very easily missed, and as for checking for cracked cases, it shouldn't be a requirement to constantly check all new rounds..there is no excuse. I'm told after 2012 they added another process to the rounds, an annealing stage to help prevent fractures, but the I'm also told they travel that far around the world cci, hornady , distributors, etc god knows we're there stored or all the rattling there doing in transit thus could be a cause of problems, but who knows...

[kenj 131]

I have had two bullet jams in my CZ452 HMR and still get split cases, despite a visual check per new box, plus the occasional flat sounding shot, a few that have made the rabbits dance, etc, but the HMR is still a fantastically accurate and effective round and won't be trading mine in any day soon.

[martin 332]

Ian have you ever weighed a box individually to see if there is a difference? Might be worth a try,I know you cant do that to every box but it would be interesting mate,and how are you getting on with the DP,is it a 5x or a 10x(5x with a doubler)

 

Martin

[IanB 0]

Ian have you ever weighed a box individually to see if there is a difference? Might be worth a try,I know you cant do that to every box but it would be interesting mate,and how are you getting on with the DP,is it a 5x or a 10x(5x with a doubler)

 

Martin

 

Its the original one Martin with doubler, its been back to Carl at NVgear and had the reticule updated to the latest ladder style which is much better. There a cracking night vision scope.

 

Never weight an individual box, but might now you have said..

[DeerhoundLurcherMan 997]

Sorry if I have missed it somewhere Ian, but will you stick with the .17hmr or go back to the .22 hornet and reload again....? Or something else?

[martin 332]

Check this out............

 

[slipper 116]

fookin hell!

[IanB 0]

Sorry if I have missed it somewhere Ian, but will you stick with the .17hmr or go back to the .22 hornet and reload again....? Or something else?

 

I'll use both mate, the hornet is more versatile, but theres no way I'm reloading like crazy for the rabbits, its easier to just pick a box of ammo up if your shooting 100 rounds a night off.

[martin 332]

You obviously got plenty of Bunnies up your end then Ian?

[IanB 0]

You obviously got plenty of Bunnies up your end then Ian?

 

Yes theres quite a lot around mate, different types of land, most are not easy to get at..I drove round a dairy farm a couple of year back and shot over 250, takes the enjoyment out of it totally..

[Alsone 789]

 

Sorry if I have missed it somewhere Ian, but will you stick with the .17hmr or go back to the .22 hornet and reload again....? Or something else?

 

I'll use both mate, the hornet is more versatile, but theres no way I'm reloading like crazy for the rabbits, its easier to just pick a box of ammo up if your shooting 100 rounds a night off.

 

 

 

.17 hornet Ian. Flatter shooing than .22 hornet and ready to go off the shelf. Only possible issue is ammo cost - 25 rounds cost around £23 or the same as 20 rounds of .223.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Alsone