Bye Bye Hmr!

[shropshire dan 467]

Your right treat them with respect and don't buy a hmr lol

[Tremo 138]

Your right treat them with respect and don't buy a hmr lol

 

+1.

 

Or ..... if you are the thrill-seeking type, then just buy yourself a revolver and play some Russian Roulette. . Same thing really. LOL

[the big chief 3,099]

Got another HMR for shooting rabbits with the night vision about 5 weeks back, had a bit of a mishap using hornady blue tips. To say I nearly shit myself is an understatement, could of blown my hand off if I was a south paw and my ear is still ringing..the stock ended up in bits 2 foot away..trigger guard bent, magazine holder and bolt jammed..Round must of got stuck in the barrel and had another one behind it..not recommended !

well thats f****d ian could have been alot worse though

[meathminkman 6]

Im thinking strongly of getting a cz 455 .17hmr here in ROI. seemingly there was alot of bad ammo with split cases etc a year or so ago but seems to be sorted this side of the the Irish sea now. Everyone seems very happy with the HMR and ammo now. No reports of rifles exploding here.

[ratbuster 807]

 

 

We all need reminding from time to time that these (and I include sub 12ft lb air rifles) are lethal weapons that need to be treated with respect.

 

Don't see how this fits in the discussion on the safety of using the HMR.

 

The rifle should be lethal on its quarry, not on its user....

Edited April 28, 2015 by ratbuster

[mad4it 694]

at one time i was thinking about getting a slot for a hmr, but now after seeing all the stuff about ammo and seeing one at the gun shop i think i will stick to my .22 rim fire. as said it a legal case waiting to happen.

[dadioles 68]

 

 

 

We all need reminding from time to time that these (and I include sub 12ft lb air rifles) are lethal weapons that need to be treated with respect.

 

Don't see how this fits in the discussion on the safety of using the HMR.

 

The rifle should be lethal on its quarry, not on its user....

 

 

Simple.... Many of us, and I include myself, get a bit complacent after a few years incident free shooting. It takes an accident like the one described to wake us up a bit.

 

If the shooter concerned was paying more attention, he would have noticed that a shot did not sound quite right and not fired a second round until investigating what happened to the first. It would only take a moment to remove the bolt and take a look up the barrel. How many people take a cleaning rod with them "just in case" (or even use one!!). My rods stay at home, they would probably get bent in the car. So if I was not sure about a blockage in the barrel that would be the end of my day's shooting.

 

It is really easy, if you are slightly careless (I have done this too) especially at night, to touch the barrel on the ground and block the end with some mud.

 

Most shooters learn by doing. They are effectively self taught. We learn by our mistakes and by reading forums like this one learn from each other.

 

All rifles have the potential to be lethal on the user, it is our care and skill that ensures that it is only lethal on the quarry.

 

Last year I inspected hundreds of hmr rounds for split cases and found quite a lot with cracked necks caused when they were formed (poorly annealed). It is not a problem and it is well understood. The cracked ones were just as accurate as the non-cracked ones and chrono readings were also the same. My only concern is that if stored in poor conditions the powder may get damp and clump together and that could cause a poor detonation causing the bullet to stay in the barrel. Tip colour is also a myth, the production line uses different colour for different brands and sometimes has too much of one colour so mixes it up. No secrets there either.

 

As shooters we may store our ammunition properly but who knows what some dealers or wholesalers get up to. I expect some shooters probably store their ammunition in less than ideal conditions.

Edited April 28, 2015 by dadioles

[hunter1 63]

Well said mate that's guns for you.

[Deker 3,478]

Glad you are still in one piece.

 

That is fairly remarkable and obviously bad news. I have heard reports of the odd magazine blowing out, but that is by far the worst rifle damage I have seen/heard of.

[Deker 3,478]

Oh well.... someone has to defend the hmr...... might as well be me.

 

A brilliant round with hundreds of millions sold every year and widely used all over the world by people of all ages and abilities.

 

After thousands of rounds fired I have never had a problem and I cannot see how I would fail to notice a hangfire unless not paying attention, I could be wrong there.

 

You were not injured. Maybe that is testimony to the strength of the rifle and an indication that they are designed to protect you from such an event even though the rifle is written off.

 

We all need reminding from time to time that these (and I include sub 12ft lb air rifles) are lethal weapons that need to be treated with respect.

 

I have to say I'm with you here.

 

The HMR has it's issues, well the ammo does anyway, this is without doubt appalling and potentially dangerous, SO BE CAREFUL. It isn't Russian roulette as someone mentioned, it is normal safety procedures.

 

With all due respect to all users, a squib load can happen with ANY calibre, it may be more likely to happen with a HMR, but if normal safety procedures applicable to any calibre are followed there is not going to be a problem.

[Deker 3,478]

 

Glad you're OK Ian, and didn't suffer any damage

 

But reading this thread why are these rifles still around with so many problems,causing severe danger to their users ? Is it just the ammo which is bad or..... Wouldn't be happy putting my face near a rifle with this record IMHO opinion back to the trusted, SAFE .22 WMR or a nice .22 hornet

 

From all accounts it's the ammo not the rifles at fault. Appears to be poor quality control.

 

 

It is the "manufacturing process", with perhaps a sprinkling of QC on top.

 

If it was simply QC this problem would have been resolved 10 years+ ago.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Deker

[Alsone 789]

 

 

Glad you're OK Ian, and didn't suffer any damage

 

But reading this thread why are these rifles still around with so many problems,causing severe danger to their users ? Is it just the ammo which is bad or..... Wouldn't be happy putting my face near a rifle with this record IMHO opinion back to the trusted, SAFE .22 WMR or a nice .22 hornet

 

From all accounts it's the ammo not the rifles at fault. Appears to be poor quality control.

 

 

It is the "manufacturing process", with perhaps a sprinkling of QC on top.

 

If it was simply QC this problem would have been resolved 10 years+ ago.

 

 

Yeah it's a combination of factors no doubt but to my mind it's still a quality control issue. There are allegedly issues with production, but if the quality control was better, then surely these damaged cases would never make it to production.

 

So far as we appear to know, the issue appears to be ammo with cracked cases making it to market, with the theory being that moisture then gets into the casing and affects the powder charges viability.

 

That is something that should be picked up upon at the manufacturing line in my opinion.

 

Surely if the cases were passed through an Xray machine such as these:

 

http://www.krystalvision.co.in/krystalvision-ndt-cable-x-ray-scanner.html

 

http://www.3dx-ray.com/products/industrial/x-line-hrs

 

...those with cracked cases could be filtered out and recycled before ever making it to the filling cycle.

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

Glad you're OK Ian, and didn't suffer any damage

 

But reading this thread why are these rifles still around with so many problems,causing severe danger to their users ? Is it just the ammo which is bad or..... Wouldn't be happy putting my face near a rifle with this record IMHO opinion back to the trusted, SAFE .22 WMR or a nice .22 hornet

 

From all accounts it's the ammo not the rifles at fault. Appears to be poor quality control.

 

 

It is the "manufacturing process", with perhaps a sprinkling of QC on top.

 

If it was simply QC this problem would have been resolved 10 years+ ago.

 

 

Yeah it's a combination of factors no doubt but to my mind it's still a quality control issue. There are allegedly issues with production, but if the quality control was better, then surely these damaged cases would never make it to production.

 

So far as we appear to know, the issue appears to be ammo with cracked cases making it to market, with the theory being that moisture then gets into the casing and affects the powder charges viability.

 

That is something that should be picked up upon at the manufacturing line in my opinion.

 

Surely if the cases were passed through an Xray machine such as these:

 

http://www.krystalvision.co.in/krystalvision-ndt-cable-x-ray-scanner.html

 

http://www.3dx-ray.com/products/industrial/x-line-hrs

 

...those with cracked cases could be filtered out and recycled before ever making it to the filling cycle.

 

 

Read up on the manufacturing process and responses from CCI/Hornady on production methods. Split cases prior to firing are fine generally, so are those that split during firing.

 

I have had hundreds of split cases, I tend to check after firing these days and have a collection of over 100 spent split cases, I have never had a squib load with a HMR but I have with other calibres.

 

Like I said, if it was SIMPLY QC, this problem would have been resolved years ago.

 

Edit

Email CCI and outline your theory about QC being the issue, get an answer from the horses mouth.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Deker

[Born Hunter 17,751]

So what causes the squib round then? Lack of powder? What?

 

I find it hard to believe that QC couldn't be improved to solve it...... perhaps what they mean in that QC can't be improved to solve it cheaply....

[Alsone 789]

In my personal opinion Born, I think that's what it really is.

 

I don't think it's impossible to solve on the face of it based on what we think we know the problem is. I think it more comes down to economics.

 

Potentially, when you look at those xray machines, at least one of which claims it can spot defects in single links of chain on the fly, I can't see in principle why such a machine could not detect cracks in case heads in the same manner before they reached the filling station and simply divert affected cases into a recycling bin for smelting and reprocessing. I think the likely issue is cost.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Alsone