Big Cat & The Law

[maktayla 50]

Hi all. Been away for a while. In my job I am very lucky to meet a hell of a lot of farmers on a day to day basis. Earlier today, a farmer I know very well arrived and asked me if I had heard about a cat that had been shot recently on Llangorse mountain. I hadn't, so obviously I was very intrigued as to what he had to tell me. He went on to tell me it wasn't a black cat like most people report to see, this cat was brown in colour and it had been killing sheep. I asked the farmer if he had a photo of it. I am sure he told me it was on facebook. However, he told me he would send me a photo when he gets back home. A while after and true to his word he sent me a photo. I instantly recognised it as a puma. The photo showed it, dead, on the back of a truck. Anyway, to cut a long story short, I did a lot of digging around and talking to mates and eventually found out it was all a fake. I felt l like a complete idiot when i realised it was posted on April 1st. Silly me. The reasons I am writing this post is to ask if anyone else had seen this? Ive uploaded the image and the comment above it. What if this was true? Where would you stand in the eyes of the law. Would you breach of your conditions on your certificate or would it be justifiable if it was killing livestock. I feel like a bit of an idiot now but, I have to be honest, it had me and a few others searching for a while to see if it was true.

[maktayla 50]

P.s. Apologies if ive posted this in the wrong section.

[Yokel Matt 918]

These sorts of stories are always going round, I heard of a bloke that spent over an hour stalking into what he thought was a big black cat and was actually a plastic bag caught in a hedge!

 

Personally I'm sceptical unless I see one for myself. I shot a large jet black feral cat round a pen a few years back that was the size of a fox, that was a big cat.... but not a BIG CAT.

[SportingShooter 0]

I wonder if a Puma or Panther would come under Any other lawful quarry...

 

Thing is, in the UK nothing is illegal unless it is expressly forbidden by some sort of law or regulation. So someone would have to point me in the direction of a law that prohibits the killing of large cat species on the UK mainland, far as I know, there is no such protection because they do not exist here and haven't for hundreds or thousands of years. If there is no protection, then it would probably be lawful to kill and as such lawful quarry.

 

Of course, you'd need to be satisfied that it wasn't someone's property and you don't fall in to the criminal damage trap.

 

You'd obviously have to consider what you shot it with, the animal cruelty argument could always come in to play if you shot it with a .22LR. Plus, if you shot it with expanding ammunition, you would need to be satisfied that shooting it would be under the "management of an estate". I dare say that preventing dead livestock is managing.

 

In any case, if it was charging at you, then you'd always have the life or death defense that you believed it was going to kill or seriously injure you.

 

Until someone shoots one and gets taken on, I guess we'll never know.

[maktayla 50]

Thanks for the replies. 'Yokel Matt' I agree with you. There are a lot of these stories going around and I am also sceptical. I am beginning to wonder if there is anything like these cats wondering our countryside. As I said I meet a huge amount of farmers on a daily basis in a very busy abattoir. I am sure if these animals did exist, sheep would have to be top on their grocery list. Easy prey. Today was the first time Ive heard anything in 13yrs of sheep being killed. That turned out to be untrue of course.

Thankyou too Sportingshooter. I think you just confirmed what I had in my head anyway. But I suppose its like most things, Im a sceptic and if, and I mean a big if, anything like this did appear into view while out in the field, its interesting where you might stand within the law. Thankyou guys. The reasons I posted this is because I thought it might be interesting to see if anyone else had seen this hoax, a similar story or, even anyone else may have seen what they think was a big cat. As Yokel Matt stated, the feral cat he shot was large and I suppose many sightings have been down to something like this. I bet that guy who stalked the black bag was kicking himself. If it had been me and I was on my own, thats a story I would have took to the grave with me. So embarassing.

[SportingShooter 0]

I've never seen anything I can claim to be a big cat and I've covered I don't know how many square miles of ground when shooting or lamping.

 

One of my farms where I've been shooting the longest has had rumblings of some large creature, the farmer there has told me that a few years ago he found a sheep carcass up a tree, about 15 feet off the ground.

 

It would take something seriously powerful to lift that to any height so I can't really say it isn't possible they are roaming around somewhere, they were certainly released in the 70's by private owners but how many survived and are still around, I don't know.

 

If I was convinced with my own eyes, then fine. Until that happens, I'll be one of life's skeptics.

[Deker 3,478]

It is rather difficult to find any legislation that specifically relates to controlling (shooting) Wild/dangerous animals.

 

Suffice to say the W&C Act makes it illegal to release/introduce these into the countryside, so I expect any potential prosecution for the removal of them, by almost any means, would be difficult.

 

The conditions on your FAC are always overridden by any need for personal safety.

 

Personally I think it is more than likely that big cats have/do find their way into the wild in this country, but breeding populations are a bit of a stretch. A good, sensible friend of mine with his own land has had rather surprising events, and I have seen his pictures which have me scratching my head.

 

To date I am not aware of any hunter producing a deceased body as evidence though.

 

Edited April 11, 2015 by Deker

[treecreeper 1,136]

There is one in inververness museum called felicity that was trapped live in the 80s, Whether there is anything out there breeding iv got my doubts but I reckon there is a few things kicking about that have either been released or escaped from private collections. I did hear rumours of a farmer shooting and burying one due to not wanting to risk publishing it but how much truth there was in it I don't know but I don't think id be shouting about it if I shot one either.

[maktayla 50]

If you shot one, would you go public? Would it attract the attentions of Anti's? For example, when the badger cull was announced? I think it would certainly make the news. And if I did shoot one and had to inform the authorities I'd want the full pelt for the front of my fire place. The Mrs would be very pleased

Anyways, hers a link to the original website showing a video of the mountain lion shot in Bismark, (not Llangorse mountain) if any of you nice people fancy having a look. I think you will agree it is definately the same truck and cat and so on.

 

http://www.kxnet.com/story/23921316/mountain-lion-shot-in-bismarck

[Deker 3,478]

If you shot one, would you go public? Would it attract the attentions of Anti's? For example, when the badger cull was announced? I think it would certainly make the news. And if I did shoot one and had to inform the authorities I'd want the full pelt for the front of my fire place. The Mrs would be very pleased

Anyways, hers a link to the original website showing a video of the mountain lion shot in Bismark, (not Llangorse mountain) if any of you nice people fancy having a look. I think you will agree it is definately the same truck and cat and so on.

 

http://www.kxnet.com/story/23921316/mountain-lion-shot-in-Bismarck

 

Who knows, but I don't think this is quite the same as the Badger cull, after all, not many Badgers go around eating your livestock, pets children or you!

[maktayla 50]

Thanks Deker

[Tremo 138]

One thing is for sure ......... if I was out and about and I came across one of these beasties I wouldn't hesitate. I would rather run the risk of the possible consequences of my actions, rather than find out the next day that the creature had later attacked a child. I couldn't live with that, but that's just the way that I am.

[Cedric 132]

Thank goodness it's fake ! I have enough problems with unexplained things rustling in the hedge behind me in the dark !!!

[Alsone 789]

 

If you shot one, would you go public? Would it attract the attentions of Anti's? For example, when the badger cull was announced? I think it would certainly make the news. And if I did shoot one and had to inform the authorities I'd want the full pelt for the front of my fire place. The Mrs would be very pleased

Anyways, hers a link to the original website showing a video of the mountain lion shot in Bismark, (not Llangorse mountain) if any of you nice people fancy having a look. I think you will agree it is definately the same truck and cat and so on.

 

http://www.kxnet.com/story/23921316/mountain-lion-shot-in-Bismarck

 

Who knows, but I don't think this is quite the same as the Badger cull, after all, not many Badgers go around eating your livestock, pets children or you!

 

 

One thing for sure, if they did, I bet the publics attitude would be quite different.

[maktayla 50]

I suppose there is one thing to remember, these cats are hunters too and you would want to hope its not hunting you. Thanks for taking the time gents and for the replies. Maybe one day, someone will see one (if they exist in our wild) and post it on here, who knows? I think we all agree on one thing though, if one was spotted and a shot could be taken, we would take the shot. I think they have existed in the UK, after the law came into place in the 70's but I would think most of them would have died out now. If they were breeding Im sure there would be more substantial sightings. Youtube has quite a few videos on the subject and as one cat expert said, sheep for example, are easy prey. And for a cat its all about getting an easy meal and conserving energy.

 

Anyway I'll leave this topic there. Cheers guys