Overrunning On Lamp

[Casso 1,261]

The point I'm making is I know when my dog is ready , 10 , 20 , or 50 yards don't matter most cases the little bugger you kick up will take off like a shagging rocket , I want my pup running the beam ,

 

If my young dog can't take a turn out of a 50 yard rabbit in a large field , he shouldn't be out yet , simple as , we all want to give young dogs a great start , but to say he must catch a rabbit to do that is naive ,

The point being is that the dog will catch but I want him lamp savy and mannerly , to many lads with mutts running round like headless chickens on lamp in a bid to catch its first

 

The emphasis then becomes the catch and not the craft,

Edited April 6, 2015 by Casso

[paulsmithy83 567]

The point I'm making is I know when my dog is ready , 10 , 20 , or 50 yards don't matter most cases the little bugger you kick up will take off like a shagging rocket , I want my pup running the beam ,

 

If my young dog can't take a turn out of a 50 yard rabbit in a large field , he shouldn't be out yet , simple as , we all want to give young dogs a great start , but to say he must catch a rabbit to do that is naive ,

The point being is that the dog will catch but I want him lamp savy and mannerly , to many lads with mutts running round like headless chickens on lamp in a bid to catch its first

 

The emphasis then becomes the catch and not the craft,

I expect alot from my dogs and people who been out with me know this but havimg said that you start with basics and work up. O could be out all night and see 200+ rabbits a night but quarramtteed my dog ypungster will only run 4-5 Never skip a section in its learning. As the nights progress longer more challanging slips. Its reason so many kennels full of jacked or disheartened dogs. To many asking to much from to young. Give the time to let them learn correctly and confidently and have a much better dog in the end. Craft comes easy to a dog if out enough well any with half a brain

[Qbgrey 4,138]

Its no good slip on long distances if ghr dog don't know a rabbits at the end of beam.hence walking up to sitters.once learnt I'll slip a long way out.

[Casso 1,261]

 

The point I'm making is I know when my dog is ready , 10 , 20 , or 50 yards don't matter most cases the little bugger you kick up will take off like a shagging rocket , I want my pup running the beam ,

 

If my young dog can't take a turn out of a 50 yard rabbit in a large field , he shouldn't be out yet , simple as , we all want to give young dogs a great start , but to say he must catch a rabbit to do that is naive ,

The point being is that the dog will catch but I want him lamp savy and mannerly , to many lads with mutts running round like headless chickens on lamp in a bid to catch its first

 

The emphasis then becomes the catch and not the craft,

I expect alot from my dogs and people who been out with me know this but havimg said that you start with basics and work up. O could be out all night and see 200+ rabbits a night but quarramtteed my dog ypungster will only run 4-5 Never skip a section in its learning. As the nights progress longer more challanging slips. Its reason so many kennels full of jacked or disheartened dogs. To many asking to much from to young. Give the time to let them learn correctly and confidently and have a much better dog in the end. Craft comes easy to a dog if out enough well any with half a brain

When someone starts a post with "people who have been out with me" and hundreds of rabbits I usually switch off but I would like to know what section I'm skipping in a young dogs learning??

 

Shelters are full of running dogs because they have shite owners , it's as simple as that , young dogs with no manners , dogs afraid of their owners , dogs who can't walk off slip , dogs who do a f**king lap of the field when they miss , nose down styleee,

99.9% of them don't see enough rabbits to jack

 

When I feel a young dog is ready, I know he will walk to heel , I know he will come back when slipped , I know he will retrieve , I don't fret about "the catch" the perfectly placed bunny because I know he's ready mentally and physically the catch will come but it takes experience and have made all the mistakes at this stage more importantly have learned

 

Their seems to be a fear of a dog missing for some reason , the dog is the most optimistic driven critter we own and when I look at the old sheepdog chasing the passing car for the last 10 years and never catching one but still keeps at it ,?

I know it's not the be all and end all if a young dog don't catch every rabbit he's slipped on because its all a process of learning don't get me wrong it's not about over matching , and it's not about confidence either , if your dog has caught 2 and my dog has caught zero do you really think it makes a difference to the dogs mentality?? Does it f**k ,

 

What I want to see from a young dog is "desire" , that's the key for me , how much does the dog want it , if it's there he'll catch , it's just a matter of when

My biggest fear when taking a young dog out is not that he won't / can't catch, it's that he'll pick up a bad habit some how or hit an electric fence , something that would leave a mental scar, they are the hardest to shake off

I don't believe that a young fox starts off catching every bunny but still retains he desire as a mature animal and he wouldn't be exactly what you would call a driven animal but he's right up there when we think of field craft,

Edited April 7, 2015 by Casso

[leethedog 3,071]

If a dog is to run the beam it is to be trained to trust the lamp to know that when the light pool is held still there is something in the middle I start this at an early age in the garden with a small torch and a toy and it has never let me down

[Casso 1,261]

I would hate to be a young lad getting into running dogs now and glad I did my time years ago, with no internet babble, stories of wonder dogs , percentages rates of catches , it's a fecking minefield of miss information ,

 

Too many running dog owners training through pet dog ideology, don't let it jump up , confront it over this and over that , eat first , walk through door before it , total useless bullshite , useless for a working relationship,

 

Get out there and enjoy the dog and don't be giving a feck about the numbers game and whether the dog is making the grade or not , it's about you and the pup , learn through the dog don't go with the flow , think for yourself

[paulsmithy83 567]

 

 

The point I'm making is I know when my dog is ready , 10 , 20 , or 50 yards don't matter most cases the little bugger you kick up will take off like a shagging rocket , I want my pup running the beam ,

 

If my young dog can't take a turn out of a 50 yard rabbit in a large field , he shouldn't be out yet , simple as , we all want to give young dogs a great start , but to say he must catch a rabbit to do that is naive ,

The point being is that the dog will catch but I want him lamp savy and mannerly , to many lads with mutts running round like headless chickens on lamp in a bid to catch its first

 

The emphasis then becomes the catch and not the craft,

I expect alot from my dogs and people who been out with me know this but havimg said that you start with basics and work up. O could be out all night and see 200+ rabbits a night but quarramtteed my dog ypungster will only run 4-5 Never skip a section in its learning. As the nights progress longer more challanging slips. Its reason so many kennels full of jacked or disheartened dogs. To many asking to much from to young. Give the time to let them learn correctly and confidently and have a much better dog in the end. Craft comes easy to a dog if out enough well any with half a brain

When someone starts a post with "people who have been out with me" and hundreds of rabbits I usually switch off but I would like to know what section I'm skipping in a young dogs learning??

 

Shelters are full of running dogs because they have shite owners , it's as simple as that , young dogs with no manners , dogs afraid of their owners , dogs who can't walk off slip , dogs who do a f**king lap of the field when they miss , nose down styleee,

99.9% of them don't see enough rabbits to jack

 

When I feel a young dog is ready, I know he will walk to heel , I know he will come back when slipped , I know he will retrieve , I don't fret about "the catch" the perfectly placed bunny because I know he's ready mentally and physically the catch will come but it takes experience and have made all the mistakes at this stage more importantly have learned

 

Their seems to be a fear of a dog missing for some reason , the dog is the most optimistic driven critter we own and when I look at the old sheepdog chasing the passing car for the last 10 years and never catching one but still keeps at it ,?

I know it's not the be all and end all if a young dog don't catch every rabbit he's slipped on because its all a process of learning don't get me wrong it's not about over matching , and it's not about confidence either , if your dog has caught 2 and my dog has caught zero do you really think it makes a difference to the dogs mentality?? Does it f**k ,

 

What I want to see from a young dog is "desire" , that's the key for me , how much does the dog want it , if it's there he'll catch , it's just a matter of when

My biggest fear when taking a young dog out is not that he won't / can't catch, it's that he'll pick up a bad habit some how or hit an electric fence , something that would leave a mental scar, they are the hardest to shake off

I don't believe that a young fox starts off catching every bunny but still retains he desire as a mature animal and he wouldn't be exactly what you would call a driven animal but he's right up there when we think of field craft,

Casso a fox is a wild amimal that has to put food on the table to survive no comparison tbh. I have no doubt it will not lose drive if it misses one or a 100 lol. All those things like walking to heal and so on great they shpuld be doing that. I hunt em off slip if running just one dog and mine are the so called brain dead saluki x but regarldess what anyone says there are many types that need that gradual build up of confidence. Oh and the 200 rabbit quote is to show no matter what out the dog will only get 4-5 runs first few nights. Its not the threat of not catching because of numbers its the bad habbits early on that can be made like pulling up when rabbits are to close to the hedge and so on. From long slips where the dog hasnt got on terms with it to often through its early life. Give it plenty of time to build a base line of experience of fur in mouth seems to prevent these things. Especially in alot of collie blooded dogs. There is plenty of time why rush. First season set a dogs working life up.

[Casso 1,261]

Your putting human concepts into the dogs head , can a dog run any faster if he's caught 1 or 50 , if the right elements are in the pup they will show in time , surely nobody is going to lamp a rabbit sitting beside a hedge if that's what your suggesting

 

Is a dog going to run any faster because he's caught something , say your dog has caught 10 and mine has 1 will the sucess make your dog more conifident than mine of catching, ??ts drive that makes a dog respond to movement not confidence,

In that case we'd all be out with our cheetahs, no matter how susceesfull you start a cheetah, it will fail , because it don't have the drive to chase one after the other ,

 

To me we are missing a huge foundamental point about our dogs , the dog is forever the optimist, I know dogs who have never caught a rabbit in the day time but will hunt every bit as hard the next day out ,

Why ?? If we're going on the premise that a dogs drive is built on sucess?? Why does it keep hunting

[Casso 1,261]

Johnny I know where your coming from and understand the concept behind the process but playing devil advocate gets people thinking ,

we all want to get every dog the best start but in doing so sometimes we cut corners and introduce habits which are then hard to straighten out ,

Simple fact is the dog will catch , it's getting to that point with a well mannered obedient dog , where everyone involved hasn't got the overexcited about just the Catch

[paulsmithy83 567]

Im not putting human concepts into a dog. Confidence or something at least possitive happens in a dogs head. The reward of the catch and all. How many threads on here are there of failing dogs and they all ususlly have one theme. Pushed to hard to young and got all sort of problems. tell me casso what is a dog thinking when it pulls up at a hedge. Tell me what a dog is thinking when it pulls up at all. Who knows really. Anyone who pretends to Unfortunatly need there own head checking. Its all educated quess work lol im in not educated to guess haha some dogs are built up on success not all but some. I know i aint taking the risk on a dog ive spent months training and rearing F"ck that why take the risk. Anyway we all do things different so atb

[paulsmithy83 567]

Casso guy int pub said you are one of the better posters on this site, your advice and knowledge of dog traits training and just over all behaviour is great, you post to be helpfull without any malice or childishness ever. I tend to agree, but I think you have took this put of context a bit, trying to build confidence is important to me, however I wont be committing suicide or culling the sapling if it fails or doesn't react how I want, a dog is for life when it comes to me, so i tend to try and start off that life with solid foundations.

 

Lets face it, we are always putting things in the dogs favour, using a lamp, going on dark moonless nights, using the wind an terrain to our advantage, if not we may as well just let the dog out on its own every night and see what it fetches baack

Spot on

[paulsmithy83 567]

..... i'l pm you casso rather thrn anymore on the thread lol

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Good, worthwhile, interesting thread...

Edited April 7, 2015 by Phil Lloyd

[skycat 6,173]

I think it is a mistake to treat every lurcher the same. Fact is they ARE different depending on the breeding. Some very sensitive dogs which may lack confidence may well be put off running and missing time after time, no matter how well they have been reared. Others will carry on running and trying regardless of how many they miss, but even the dumbest and most driven of dogs can be sickened through many failures.

 

Surely it is up to the owner to understand and know their individual dog, what sort of mind set it has, but this is where it gets difficult for the novice owner who has little or no experience of knowledge of how a dog's mind works. Which is why I always walk a young dog out to a rabbit, put it up and lamp it back to its home. There is also slightly less chance of blinding the dog with the beam as it runs back towards you had you stayed by the hedge. Walking up to a rabbit also gives the rabbit a very slight disadvantage, as it may panic at the very close proximity of you and the dog. Everything we can do to flummox the rabbit is a good thing for young dogs.

 

I once had a very nice young lurcher which eventually went to a ferreting only home, for she lacked heart. She couldn't cope with failure on the lamp at all, and once she had missed a few you could see her starting to pull up as the rabbit neared the hedge. A more driven dog would have carried on trying regardless, which is why it is wrong to adopt a 'one method fits all' attitude in training or entering.

[Casso 1,261]

if your saying that the dog lacked heart, sounds like a dog unfit for purpose and zero connection to entering , a dog entered in normal fashion , who just decides to jump ship comes down to bad breeding , how can you possibly avoid not catching every rabbit it run , you can't ,

If the minerals are there , they come to the fore , if the breeding is shit , you'll get a shit dog , whether you mollycoddle it or not,