Why Did He Do That

[Dr B 186]

Yep, reading the thread, and apologies you don't understand the analogy

 

No you're not, and I understand fully, but I appreciate that the word 'asymmetry' is a long one for you. and you also totally avoided my point.

 

 

 

 

I have springers, so do a lot of mates, but we play with springers not hunt.

So what? I'm happy for you that you're enjoying airguns, but this is not a 'rule' I've ever encountered (only use springers for plinking). It has to be one of the oddest ideas I've heard in a long time.

 

 

If we go hunting it's because pests need removing and we take an applicable calibre. If it's air then it's pcp, they get the job done every time with no fuss or hassle.

I agree, I own a few myself. I also own a springer - as others in this thread have said (and you claim to have read) they are just as effective in the right hands. But I appreciate not everyone wants to put the time in to learn to shoot them effectively.

 

 

 

 

Can't understand for the life of me why you would advise someone to learn on a rifle they'll never use if they can afford a pcp.

Who said they will never use it? You're making massive assumptions here and just proceeding as if they are fact. Again, go back and read the thread. Lots of effective springer shooters here.

 

 

 

In this case the op is buying a springer for cost reasons, fair enough.

If you read my earlier comments, you will see I mention cost as an issue (charging systems not needed for springers). So we agree.

 

 

 

 

But originally he was going to buy a pcp OR a springer. This was when I said don't bother with the springer first, just get the pcp. very few folk who have both use the springer as the main hunting rifle, now and again maybe.

You have no evidence at all that "very few people use springers" - quite the opposite my friend. Of course they are not as popular as PCPs, but that's not an argument about efficacy, not at all.

 

 

Oh, go drive an old car some miles then you'll definitely understand it.

 

I understand you don't understand analogy and don't like springers, but the OP may well be able to do both.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Dr B

[rodp 316]

Fair enough, you're perfectly entitled to your own view. Personally I'll go with the figures. yes, probably his mate stocks more PCP's, the reason being he's a business and has to stock what sells, simple

 

From speaking to two shops around here that stock air rifles I know one that sells more springers, cheap springers, and one that sells more PCP's. One shop also sells skateboards, radio control models and bikes etc, the other is purely field sports.

You're from west midlands so may know both, their catchment tells the story.

[rodp 316]

 

Yep, reading the thread, and apologies you don't understand the analogy

 

No you're not, and I understand fully, but I appreciate that the word 'asymmetry' is a long one for you. and you also totally avoided my point.

 

 

 

 

I have springers, so do a lot of mates, but we play with springers not hunt.

So what? I'm happy for you that you're enjoying airguns, but this is not a 'rule' I've ever encountered (only use springers for plinking). It has to be one of the oddest ideas I've heard in a long time.

 

 

If we go hunting it's because pests need removing and we take an applicable calibre. If it's air then it's pcp, they get the job done every time with no fuss or hassle.

I agree, I own a few myself. I also own a springer - as others in this thread have said (and you claim to have read) they are just as effective in the right hands. But I appreciate not everyone wants to put the time in to learn to shoot them effectively.

 

 

 

 

Can't understand for the life of me why you would advise someone to learn on a rifle they'll never use if they can afford a pcp.

Who said they will never use it? You're making massive assumptions here and just proceeding as if they are fact. Again, go back and read the thread. Lots of effective springer shooters here.

 

 

 

In this case the op is buying a springer for cost reasons, fair enough.

If you read my earlier comments, you will see I mention cost as an issue (charging systems not needed for springers). So we agree.

 

 

 

 

But originally he was going to buy a pcp OR a springer. This was when I said don't bother with the springer first, just get the pcp. very few folk who have both use the springer as the main hunting rifle, now and again maybe.

You have no evidence at all that "very few people use springers" - quite the opposite my friend. Of course they are not as popular as PCPs, but that's not an argument about efficacy, not at all.

 

 

Oh, go drive an old car some miles then you'll definitely understand it.

 

I understand you don't understand analogy and don't like springers, but the OP may well be able to do both.

 

Do you actually know what analogy means ?

[mark williams 7,561]

 

One of my mates is a gunsmith with his own shop and has long ago told me that 85% of his air gun sales are pcp .

I would state that i would not drop pcp`s for a springer but i am considering which springer as back up only.

 

Each to their own i guess but 85% are in agreement in my mates shop.

 

Because your mates shop stocks more PCPs....right? Coincidence?

 

I actually think most core airgunners have both, and would not be without their springer and use them as a serious hunting weapon. I don't recognise the view of some around here of only using a springer for plinking....I think they are projecting a little too much of what works for them onto advice for others.....balanced advice always works

 

Hi Dr B,all,

My friend simply stocks more pcp rifles than spring rifles because of demand and he has a living to make.

Does it matter if Billy would not be without a springer, or Johnny a pcp ?

There are some very knowledgeable people in this forum simply giving valuable opinions over their experiences and as stated "each to their own".

 

atb

[Dr B 186]

Rod

 

I'm not 'from the WM, I just live here now

 

But no worries. The problem with the argument is 'popularity' is no measure of efficacy. Most people used to think the world was flat, were they right? No worries my friend. I love both guns, but I think most shooters would benefit from having a springer first. Just my opinion my friend.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Dr B

[Dr B 186]

 

 

Yep, reading the thread, and apologies you don't understand the analogy

 

No you're not, and I understand fully, but I appreciate that the word 'asymmetry' is a long one for you. and you also totally avoided my point.

 

 

 

 

I have springers, so do a lot of mates, but we play with springers not hunt.

So what? I'm happy for you that you're enjoying airguns, but this is not a 'rule' I've ever encountered (only use springers for plinking). It has to be one of the oddest ideas I've heard in a long time.

 

 

If we go hunting it's because pests need removing and we take an applicable calibre. If it's air then it's pcp, they get the job done every time with no fuss or hassle.

I agree, I own a few myself. I also own a springer - as others in this thread have said (and you claim to have read) they are just as effective in the right hands. But I appreciate not everyone wants to put the time in to learn to shoot them effectively.

 

 

 

 

Can't understand for the life of me why you would advise someone to learn on a rifle they'll never use if they can afford a pcp.

Who said they will never use it? You're making massive assumptions here and just proceeding as if they are fact. Again, go back and read the thread. Lots of effective springer shooters here.

 

 

 

In this case the op is buying a springer for cost reasons, fair enough.

If you read my earlier comments, you will see I mention cost as an issue (charging systems not needed for springers). So we agree.

 

 

 

 

But originally he was going to buy a pcp OR a springer. This was when I said don't bother with the springer first, just get the pcp. very few folk who have both use the springer as the main hunting rifle, now and again maybe.

You have no evidence at all that "very few people use springers" - quite the opposite my friend. Of course they are not as popular as PCPs, but that's not an argument about efficacy, not at all.

 

 

Oh, go drive an old car some miles then you'll definitely understand it.

 

I understand you don't understand analogy and don't like springers, but the OP may well be able to do both.

 

Do you actually know what analogy means ?

 

 

More than you will ever know my friend.... which is why I can tell yours don't work....but its OK

[VWman 232]

Well for what it's worth the quality and feel of that hw 100 will haunt me until I get one but think I will end up with more than one springer. I am now the proud owner of a HW 77 and can't wait to get out and shoot with it's iron sights.

I think the hw100 is worth saving for and look forward to owning one.

[Rez 4,961]

My god. The flirtin over an age old topic.

 

At the end of the day, if you don't have the coincidence to take game with a spring powered air gun, then you have to consider your own shooting capabilities. It's that simple. Confidence being the key word. Taking 5-6 rabbits with a pcp isn't an achievement.

 

If it's for work, then so be it. As in pest control so to speak. But those of us, most I would say, that enjoy the "sport" of hunting with an airgun, put the pcp away for a while and you will reap the rewards and satisfaction of actually doing something to bag that 35 yard rabbit, cos you've done nothing else at the trigger of a pcp, maybe stalk about 20 yards or so but when the heart is pumping, you know what I mean, it makes the shot so much more an art knowing that you actually have to do something when down on the group or free standing.

 

As I said in a post a while ago, you 'kill' stuff with a pcp, you 'hunt' game with a springer.

[clabedoo 59]

Another tuppence worth;

 

If someones only experience of shooting is/will be with air weapons then I would suggest a springer first. You will have to learn the principles of shooting well to be effective and these skills can transfer to a PCP should you require it. I am not sure it would work so easy the other way round.

The recommendation for young shots starting out is to use a PCP as its easier to shoot and so they are likely to hit what they are aiming for more often and thereby continue in the sport and I can't really argue with that. But if they then go home and pester mum for a gun and she has to buy them a springer 'cos that's what she can afford and the youngster will have to learn all over again. Not a problem as long as someone who knows what they are doing can teach them how to shoot.

 

For and against always - never a right or a wrong.

 

Worst thing I did was flog me Walnut HW 97 as my PCP more or less does most of the work for me and is definitely less challenging to shoot effectively.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well let me just say, I grew up using springers, other than pump up pneumatics (and I do still like a good pump up rifle) there was no alternative, I have owned quite a few pcp rifles since the 90s and all have been good, probably very good indeed, do I still own one? No, but the tuned hw77 .177 gets used a lot, and is so damn accurate, and hardly ever fails to put quarry in the bag, that I just dont see the need for a pcp and all its attendant paraphernalia, of pumps, dive tanks etc,now I use an air rifle on the whole to provide food for my hawk during the moult, when a rich diet of squirrel, pigeon, etc is required to assist in growing new feathers, I can walk around all day long, potting at squirrel dreys,and their occupants without fear of running out of air, something I would constantly worry about with a pcp, yes I could walk back to the car and re-fill/top up, but once out in the woods I like to stay out and not have to traipse back to the car(perhaps I am lazy) now if I go out to lamp a few bunnies for the pot, I generally take my semi auto .22 rf, but the more I think about it, do I actually shoot more with the .22rf than if I took the air rifle? Probably not, but I can shoot them further, so do not have to apply the same amount of field craft/stealth, (lazy again) however the next couple of lamping trips will be with the 77 and my bet is I come home with roughly the same amount of bunnies, what does all this rambling tell us? Well it tells me that a well tuned spring gun in the right hands, is still a force to be reckoned with, far from being the anachronistic relic some would have us believe it is will I ever have another pcp? of course I will, but I bet I find myself reaching for the old 77 more often

[pianoman 3,587]

Charlie caller, that is exactly my experience with my Daystate Regal PCP and my HW77 .22 spring rifle. I was out yesterday afternoon with the Regal and shot 6 rabbits with it.

 

The only advantage the Regal PCP gave me was a quick reload and a decisive shot on a second rabbit before it bolted after killing its mate. It is an incredibly quiet and accurate rifle and makes for a genuinely effective culling tool.

 

But so is my HW77. That rifle is a sheer joy to shoot with and I've shot dozens of rabbits in a single evening foray many times now, with it. It has proved itself as effective as any sporting rifle I've shot with before or since.

 

PCP or top notch spring rifle? Both are superb in my view, both do the job in their own way, with a few telling advantages and goodies (and some disadvantages, it must be said in fairness) over each other.

 

But it is quite wrong to believe the PCP is a superior hunting arm to a spring rifle. Because it isn't by a mile!

 

Buy both, learn from both and enjoy and use both. And see for yourself.

 

Not to try is not to know

 

Well let me just say, I grew up using springers, other than pump up pneumatics (and I do still like a good pump up rifle) there was no alternative, I have owned quite a few pcp rifles since the 90s and all have been good, probably very good indeed, do I still own one? No, but the tuned hw77 .177 gets used a lot, and is so damn accurate, and hardly ever fails to put quarry in the bag, that I just dont see the need for a pcp and all its attendant paraphernalia, of pumps, dive tanks etc,now I use an air rifle on the whole to provide food for my hawk during the moult, when a rich diet of squirrel, pigeon, etc is required to assist in growing new feathers, I can walk around all day long, potting at squirrel dreys,and their occupants without fear of running out of air, something I would constantly worry about with a pcp, yes I could walk back to the car and re-fill/top up, but once out in the woods I like to stay out and not have to traipse back to the car(perhaps I am lazy) now if I go out to lamp a few bunnies for the pot, I generally take my semi auto .22 rf, but the more I think about it, do I actually shoot more with the .22rf than if I took the air rifle? Probably not, but I can shoot them further, so do not have to apply the same amount of field craft/stealth, (lazy again) however the next couple of lamping trips will be with the 77 and my bet is I come home with roughly the same amount of bunnies, what does all this rambling tell us? Well it tells me that a well tuned spring gun in the right hands, is still a force to be reckoned with, far from being the anachronistic relic some would have us believe it is will I ever have another pcp? of course I will, but I bet I find myself reaching for the old 77 more often

[clabedoo 59]

See now you've all got me drooling again - just found a HW97 Chromed Ltd Ed for £250-00 somewhere else and I really really want it

[VWman 232]

A thank you to Pianoman for recommending the Hw77 and a thank you to Rick for this lovely new 77 still in the box. I could of reached a hw100 but really wanted a top notch springer first.

I need some sights and I am away up the fields.

I have had good advice from this forum so another thanks to all the guys.

Cheers Mike.

[pianoman 3,587]

Dear Mike.

 

it's a genuine pleasure to see a fellow equip himself well on the back of good advice from experienced shooters who've gone and made enough mistakes as well as triumphs, to learn from. I'm glad to have been a part of your process.

 

You will love your HW77.

 

H&N FIELD TARGET TROPHY, AIR ARMS FIELDS, JSB EXACT, RWS SUPERDOMES are just a few pelllet brands that I know, are brilliant with the HW77 in either calibre. Hopefully, Rick has already discovered its precise, preferred pellet before selling the rifle to you.

 

I'm really looking forward to reading your posts about your times out shooting with it.

 

Why not post a pic of the new baby for us to have a look at. :thumbs:

 

All the very best Mike.

 

Simon

Edited March 23, 2015 by pianoman

[charlie caller 3,654]

And just to add to that venerable list of pellets above, mine .177 absolutely loves H&N Baraccuda hunter extreme, 9.57 grain, it is pellet on pellet out to 40 yards+ and they pack a hell of a punch.