If God Made Everything, Who Made Him ?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Just remember it translated into old english, so accuracies is how your going to describe these sciences in the bible, thousands of years before they were discovered by scientists recentley,,,oh yes chris when im done, il put up links to studys an thesis papers, by creation scie.tists

 

Oh an i really think your helping powers that be, indoctrinate the young people, with your historical science, which cannot be observed, more to come mate, atvb

 

Not quite following you here. Are you saying it's been mistranslated, or that it's open to interpretation?

 

I've read more that you've posted since, and again it's just the circular argument of canonised scripture and biblical prophesy. The bible is true because it says so in the bible... It still doesn't answer any of the questions I've asked regarding the bible's content in other posts.

 

Over on Bible Gateway there are 52 different versions, of the English version, of the holy bible. Most of them agree on overall content but they have subtle differences in translation?

 

Why is this?

 

If they have been copied over two millenia from the originals, as you claim, why are there inconsistencies in their message?

 

If it is divine word, as you claim, then why do so many scribes differ in their translations?

 

Is it the word of god?

 

Or is it the word of man?

Edited April 20, 2015 by ChrisJones

[sandymere 8,263]

Good book for those interested in this stuff

 

http://infidels.org/kiosk/book/god-and-the-folly-of-faith-the-incompatibility-of-science-and-religion-1058.html

[sandymere 8,263]

[Quarter bull 240]

Lol aye cracker sandy

[Quarter bull 240]

Good book for those interested in this stuff

 

http://infidels.org/kiosk/book/god-and-the-folly-of-faith-the-incompatibility-of-science-and-religion-1058.html

Lol how many copies did he sell of that not that many....

[sandymere 8,263]

lol @QB, My lampost sheds light on what is rather than gives me problems with cognitive dissonance.

You will love this one

http://infidels.org/kiosk/article/jesus-was-real-and-mentally-abused-by-his-parents-894.html

[Quarter bull 240]

 

Not quite following you here. Are you saying it's been mistranslated, or that it's open to interpretation?

 

No chris what im saying is that evoloution theory, uses historical science, ie, supposed science, that no one has seen, an trys to pass it off as observable testable science, big difference,

 

Molecules to man is historical science, no one has never seen it, an theres no way to test or observe it, ie physcial science, so therefore imo if it cant be seen tested or observed, it needs faith beleif, therefore a religon, this is true no matter what anyone says, even tho evo,s wont admit it, an this is my point, they wont admit its a religos indoctrination, of naturalism.

 

 

I've read more that you've posted since, and again it's just the circular argument of canonised scripture and biblical prophesy.

 

Chris your mistaken mate, my point in posting these things is to show the bible is Gods word, an he revealed these things thousands of years ago, which are scientists are only recently finding out, have you no answer for this......circular argument is the way they date fossils, one day, bones date layer of rock, then next day, the layer of rock date the bone, now thas circular.

 

 

 

Over on Bible Gateway there are 52 different versions, of the English version, of the holy bible. Most of them agree on overall content but they have subtle differences in translation?

 

Why is this?

 

 

Imo these are brought out to try an dilute Gods word, to confuse an mislead, the king james is the only bible that can be trusted imo

 

If it is divine word, as you claim, then why do so many scribes differ in their translations?

 

Is it the word of god?

 

Or is it the word of man?

 

Chris the bibles that are coming out, are not done by scribes, there are made by all sorts, heck i could bring out one if i wanted, men adding subtracting, or completley changing Gods word,

[Quarter bull 240]

lol @QB, My lampost sheds light on what is rather than gives me problems with cognitive dissonance.

You will love this one

http://infidels.org/kiosk/article/jesus-was-real-and-mentally-abused-by-his-parents-894.html

At least your admitting your battling your cognitive dissonance lol

[Quarter bull 240]

Another interesting one...

 

The Paths Of The Seas:

The Bible says

 

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him but little lower than God, And crownest him with glory and honor. Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, Yea, and the beasts of the field, The birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, Whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [Psalms 8:4-8] [Emphasis Added]

 

When the Bible speaks of the paths of the seas it is more than likely that it is referring to ocean currents, which was discovered by man only in the 1850s. The following history of the discovery of these paths has been excerpted from Answers in Genesis

 

American naval officer and oceanographer Matthew Maury (1806-1873) who wrote the first textbook on modern oceanography called The Physical Geography of the Sea and Its Meteorology, was a Christian who had no doubts about the accuracy of the Bible. After an accident partially disabled him ending his active duty with the Navy, he was appointed superintendent of the US Naval Observatory in Washington. In his Bible studies, the words of Psalm 8 stuck in his mind: ... whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. Maury determined that if Gods Word said there were paths in the seas, then there must be paths. So he set out to find them.

 

He studied old ships logs. From these he compiled charts of ocean-wind and sea currents. To study the speed and direction of the ocean currents Maury set adrift weighted bottles known as drift bottles. These floated slightly below the surface of the water, and thus were not affected by wind. Instructions were sealed in each bottle directing anyone who found one washed ashore to return it. From the location and date on which the bottles were found, Maury was able to develop his charts of the ocean currentsthe paths of the seaswhich greatly aided the science of marine navigation. [9]

 

[Quarter bull 240]

Springs Under The Seas:

Hydrothermal vents are found in areas of the ocean floor that are spreading, such as at mid-ocean ridges, where tectonic plates are being pulled apart. Molten magma then rises from deep inside the Earth, superheating the cold ocean water around it. The average temperature of deep-ocean water is only 2°C (36°F). The water coming directly from a hydrothermal vent can reach up to 350°C (662°F) and is rich in dissolved chemicals. The hot spring water forms a plume above the vent, somewhat like smoke rising from a chimney into the air.

 

The first underwater hot spring to be discovered was probably in 1977, when scientists discovered hot springs at a depth of 2.5 km, on the Galapagos Rift (spreading ridge) off the coast of Ecuador. Since then other hot springs have been found at a number of sites along the mid-oceanic ridges, many on the East Pacific Rise. Giant tube worms, huge clams, and mussels all thrive around the hot springs. [11]

 

Yet once again the Bible was slightly ahead of mans discovery..

 

Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? Or hast thou walked in the recesses of the deep? [Job 38:16] [Emphasis Added]

 

[Quarter bull 240]

Precise dimensions of Noah's Ark

The dimensions of Noah's Ark as described in the Bible are ideal for stability. In fact, South Korean architects who examined the dimensions found that the boat was virtually impossible to capsize! Their modeling and analysis found that the ark could survive waves higher than 30 meters! (note that a typical tsunami is only 10 meters high) [12]. Many other cultures have flood legends similar to the account in the Bible, but their ark descriptions were not very believable. For example, the Babylonian Gilgamesh Flood legend described an ark that was shaped like a cube, which would be horrible for stability.

[Quarter bull 240]

Man from Dust

Researchers at NASA's Ames Research Center confirmed that every element in man can be found in the soil, prompting one of the scientists to say

 

"...the biblical scenario for the creation of life turns out to be not far off the mark". [7a]

[Quarter bull 240]

Adam And Eve:

The Genesis account of creation asserts that all humans descended from the same parents, Adam and Eve. There is now considerable debate in the scientific community over recent genetic studies which indicate that all men have a common father, and all women have a common mother. In fact, the latter claim is sometimes called the Eve hypothesis. Some scientists are skeptical about these studies, and even those who are supportive would not generally accept the Genesis account; however, Bible believers should expect further research to add yet more evidence supporting these hypotheses. [13]

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Chris the bibles that are coming out, are not done by scribes, there are made by all sorts, heck i could bring out one if i wanted, men adding subtracting, or completley changing Gods word,

 

This is exactly my point! Can you at least see why athiests, and agnostics, have had all kinds of reckoning with this material over the last couple of thousands of years?!

 

I've added the emphasis where I find massive problems with this scripture!

 

They're all claiming they're right!

 

They're all claiming they're printing the word of god!

 

On that website alone they have 52 different interpretations of the same scripture!

 

We've had 2000 years of man writing, re-writing, redacting, adding, subtracting, traslating, re-translating, and yet all of them claim to be messengers of the lord!

 

We can't even establish who wrote these books! As none of us were alive when they were written how can we possibly verify their accuracy when they fly in the face of practically everything written since?

 

I'm still agnostic, QB. I simply don't know whether god exists or not. How do we know that athiesm/agnosticism, combined with the exercise of free will, isn't in fact god's plan afterall?

 

What if he deliberately sent ambiguous information down to man, knowing full well (with this perfect knowledge) that man would deliberately distort it for personal gain?

 

What if the divine plan was actually figuring it out for ourselves, denying his existance, while simultaneously being kind to each other?

 

What if the divine plan is loving our fellow man without any fear, or reward, in an afterlife? Acting justly and truthfully for the benefit of all?

 

Couldn't we successfully argue that those who protect and nurture, without fear of consequence, or personal gain, could in fact be god's chosen ones? They are acting selflessly despite all these threats of damnation? They are acting selflessly despite all these promised rewards?

 

They're simply acting because it's the right thing to do?!

 

If he truly rewards the kind and caring then why would he care if we act without feeling as though we're being judged by him?

 

Science doesn't disprove a creator. It merely explains how things work. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[Quarter bull 240]

One Blood:

Until recent times, it was believed there was significant differences in the blood of various human races. However statistical divisions of humanity based on different kinds of genetic data do not group people consistently into races

 

most human variation falls within, not between populations. About 85% of all genetic variation can, on average, be found within any local population, be they Swedes, Kikuyu, or Hmong. About 94% can be found within any continental population In fact, there are no characteristics, no traits, not even one gene that turns up in all members of one so-called race yet is absent from others.

 

In fact, even disputing the belief that diseases like sickle cell anemia are race specific diseases, it goes on to say

 

Doctors were long taught that sickle cell anemia was a genetic disease of Negroes, a marker of their race. Yet sickle cell is found among peoples from central and western Africa, but not southern Africa. It is also carried by Turks, Yemenis, Indians, Greeks, and Sicilians. That's because sickle cell arose several thousand years ago as a mutation in one of the genes that codes for hemoglobin. The mutation soon spread to successive populations along the trade routes where malaria was common. It turns out that inheriting one sickle cell allele confers resistance to malaria and thus provides a selective advantage in malarial regions (inheriting sickle cell alleles from both parents causes sickle-cell disease). In other words, sickle cell is a marker not of skin color or race but ancestry, or more precisely, having ancestors from where malaria was common. [14]

 

 

Life is in the Blood:

Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life:

 

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

 

Today it is well established that If you lose your blood, you lose your life, however bloodletting or the withdrawal of, often considerable quantities of blood, from a patient to cure or prevent illness was a most common medical practice performed by doctors from antiquity up to the late 19th century. Today we know that not only is bloodletting ineffective for most diseases, in the overwhelming majority of cases it was extremely harmful to patients.

 

 

Blood Clotting in Infants:

The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day. For example, in Genesis 17:12, God specifically directed Abraham to circumcise newborn males on the eighth day.

 

Prothrombin is a plasma protein produced in the liver in the presence of vitamin K. As the name indicates, it is the precursor of thrombin, which facilitates the clotting of blood. If vitamin K is deficient, there will be a prothrombin deficiency and hemorrhaging may occur

 

Since Vitamin K is not readily carried through the placenta, babies are born with very small amounts of vitamin K in their bodies which can lead to decreased clotting ability of the blood, and leave the newborn more susceptible to hemorrhage. Vitamin K must either be acquired from dietary sources, or as a by-products of intestinal bacteria, therefore most of the Vitamin K needed by the baby is obtained through a slow build up of their gut bacteria after they are born.

 

Apologetics Press quotes Holt and McIntosh, in their classic work, Holt Pediatrics, which...

 

observed that a newborn infant has peculiar susceptibility to bleeding between the second and fifth days of life.... Hemorrhages at this time, though often inconsequential, are sometimes extensive; they may produce serious damage to internal organs, especially to the brain, and cause death from shock and exsanguination (1953, pp. 125-126). Obviously, then, if vitamin K is not produced in sufficient quantities until days five through seven, it would be wise to postpone any surgery until some time after that. [15]

 

Which is sufficient reason to wait for a week before circumcision and, in itself, testimony to the accuracy of the Bible, since "prothrombin" and "Vitamin K" would have been Latin and Greek to the people of that time.

 

However, some believe that God specified day eight, because

 

On the eighth day, the amount of prothrombin present actually is elevated above one-hundred percent of normaland is the only day in the males life in which this will be the case under normal conditions [15]

 

However, I can find no corroborating study for the eighth day scenario, which is not to say that one does not exist.