If God Made Everything, Who Made Him ?

[jacknife 2,005]

Another thing I cannot get my head around is

 

Start Adam and eve

 

Approx 1500 years later Noah and the ark

 

So the dinosaurs lived and died out in the 1500 years between the creation and Noah

[*The*Field*Marshall* 674]

If God made everything, who made Him? Ha, I trust that this old school boy question has already been answered, comprehensively. . Oh here I go jumping in out of sync!

 

I understand some may be sick to the back teeth of these “God threads” but it proves the point - that want to know the seemingly unknowable is inherent to mankind. Much like a turtle hatched on a beach that seeks to return to the ocean, it’s permanent abode. . So man has been made with an inbuilt inclination to know and return to his maker; and that is what I believe that old inquisitive nature is down to. I think some would acknowledge this whilst others may bury their heads in the sand, excuse the pun! This comprehension we have of future events is one of the things that set us apart from animals.

 

The Bible puts it this way "He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end" Ecclesiastes 3:11.

 

I believe that due to sin we are born lost and cut off from God. . Figuratively speaking it can feel like a hole in the soul, a missing part to the heart. . It can manifest itself in many ways, to some it can simply be an unquenchable thirst for knowledge, to others it can be a sense and feeling of being lonely and lost. That inclination I see suppressed all the time, some attempt satisfy it with drugs, alcohol, sex, religion, occult, work/career/education, hobbies – anything. . But nothing else will do it, we are born to know the bigger picture and we must connect with our creator in order for that to happen. .

 

I’ve seen all sorts, rich and poor turn to this trend and to that experience. . Nothing will satisfy, accept to know the truth of our identity and be at one with our creator, or Father as the Bible states. Who doesn’t want to feel sense of love and belonging? It's not weak, that is simply the way we are made.

 

I was speaking to a physiatrist in work just the other day; he sweepingly and typically concluded that all “religious” experiences are purely down to an area of the brain. The look on his face when I responded “Yes Dr, I believe God designed the brain to function that way”.

If you have privilege of knowing someone whose life has and is being touched and changed by the life, death and teachings of Jesus Christ, you’ll notice a sense of peace, surety and clarity that you will not find elsewhere.
I’ll end on this, remember we Christians are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand we know a lot of people don’t like to hear our views, on the other hand we know that if any man or woman dies in a state of rejection of Jesus Christ and His gospel you will die and enemy and not a friend of the living God. .

[Accip74 7,112]

If God made everything, who made Him? Ha, I trust that this old school boy question has already been answered, comprehensively. . Oh here I go jumping in out of sync!

 

I understand some may be sick to the back teeth of these God threads but it proves the point - that want to know the seemingly unknowable is inherent to mankind. Much like a turtle hatched on a beach that seeks to return to the ocean, its permanent abode. . So man has been made with an inbuilt inclination to know and return to his maker; and that is what I believe that old inquisitive nature is down to. I think some would acknowledge this whilst others may bury their heads in the sand, excuse the pun! This comprehension we have of future events is one of the things that set us apart from animals.

 

The Bible puts it this way "He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end" Ecclesiastes 3:11.

 

I believe that due to sin we are born lost and cut off from God. . Figuratively speaking it can feel like a hole in the soul, a missing part to the heart. . It can manifest itself in many ways, to some it can simply be an unquenchable thirst for knowledge, to others it can be a sense and feeling of being lonely and lost. That inclination I see suppressed all the time, some attempt satisfy it with drugs, alcohol, sex, religion, occult, work/career/education, hobbies anything. . But nothing else will do it, we are born to know the bigger picture and we must connect with our creator in order for that to happen. .

 

Ive seen all sorts, rich and poor turn to this trend and to that experience. . Nothing will satisfy, accept to know the truth of our identity and be at one with our creator, or Father as the Bible states. Who doesnt want to feel sense of love and belonging? It's not weak, that is simply the way we are made.

 

I was speaking to a physiatrist in work just the other day; he sweepingly and typically concluded that all religious experiences are purely down to an area of the brain. The look on his face when I responded Yes Dr, I believe God designed the brain to function that way.

 

If you have privilege of knowing someone whose life has and is being touched and changed by the life, death and teachings of Jesus Christ, youll notice a sense of peace, surety and clarity that you will not find elsewhere.

Ill end on this, remember we Christians are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand we know a lot of people dont like to hear our views, on the other hand we know that if any man or woman dies in a state of rejection of Jesus Christ and His gospel you will die and enemy and not a friend of the living God. .

Actually I can't be arsed :-) Edited March 13, 2015 by Accip74

[Born Hunter 17,809]

FM, that's an interesting view. I like that you have put some serious thought into faith/theism and come up with a rational explanation based on your fundamental theistic belief.

 

I too believe that theism is a built in part of the human psychology. Difference is I adhere to my own natural explanation for it (merely a musing of my own, nothing substantially scientific). I say evolution, you say creation, and the argument comes full circle! LOL

 

And don't worry about me dying having rejected God. I believe I'm to leave this world permanently, my mind as dead as my body, upsetting that fella ain't to much of a concern.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Born Hunter

[Mickey Finn 3,016]

 

 

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

I'd call it a plane crash. That they fly at all would be the miracle. We'll know soon enough how the plane crashed, and why the injuries and damage occurred. That is simple science. For bus crash it's the same. Years ago I went to an accident on the Interstate highway. A tour bus, rolled over in the fog, and landed on it's side across the lanes of traffic. Three cars drove through the center, and nobody was injured. The people were sitting in the front of the bus, and the passengers of the cars benefitted from modern automotive design. God did create human beings who took the time to advance the species as a whole. So, it was Gods will, but no miracle. You say that people declared a miracle when there were survivors in your example. What of it?

 

ATB

Bible says once you die, your then judged, you havent the capability to come back as a ghost, or anything else,,,:-)

 

So, no purgatory for you? As for spirits returning we think they can come under Gods will to petition for prayers.

 

For Accip 74 I saw your post before the edit. If I may... Your free will holds up as long as you live. At your judgment your choices pay off. Or not as the case may be.

 

ATB

[Accip74 7,112]

 

 

 

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

 

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

 

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

 

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

I'd call it a plane crash. That they fly at all would be the miracle. We'll know soon enough how the plane crashed, and why the injuries and damage occurred. That is simple science. For bus crash it's the same. Years ago I went to an accident on the Interstate highway. A tour bus, rolled over in the fog, and landed on it's side across the lanes of traffic. Three cars drove through the center, and nobody was injured. The people were sitting in the front of the bus, and the passengers of the cars benefitted from modern automotive design. God did create human beings who took the time to advance the species as a whole. So, it was Gods will, but no miracle. You say that people declared a miracle when there were survivors in your example. What of it?

 

ATB

Bible says once you die, your then judged, you havent the capability to come back as a ghost, or anything else,,,:-)

So, no purgatory for you? As for spirits returning we think they can come under Gods will to petition for prayers.

 

For Accip 74 I saw your post before the edit. If I may... Your free will holds up as long as you live. At your judgment your choices pay off. Or not as the case may be.

 

ATB

Ok thanks, at least I know now that many hundreds of Catholic priests will be in trouble on their judgment day, that's comforting ;-)

[Mickey Finn 3,016]

 

 

 

 

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

 

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

I'd call it a plane crash. That they fly at all would be the miracle. We'll know soon enough how the plane crashed, and why the injuries and damage occurred. That is simple science. For bus crash it's the same. Years ago I went to an accident on the Interstate highway. A tour bus, rolled over in the fog, and landed on it's side across the lanes of traffic. Three cars drove through the center, and nobody was injured. The people were sitting in the front of the bus, and the passengers of the cars benefitted from modern automotive design. God did create human beings who took the time to advance the species as a whole. So, it was Gods will, but no miracle. You say that people declared a miracle when there were survivors in your example. What of it?

 

ATB

Bible says once you die, your then judged, you havent the capability to come back as a ghost, or anything else,,,:-)

So, no purgatory for you? As for spirits returning we think they can come under Gods will to petition for prayers.

 

For Accip 74 I saw your post before the edit. If I may... Your free will holds up as long as you live. At your judgment your choices pay off. Or not as the case may be.

 

ATB

Ok thanks, at least I know now that many hundreds of Catholic priests will be in trouble on their judgment day, that's comforting ;-)

 

Unless they sincerely repent.

[Accip74 7,112]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

 

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

 

Bit of a loose statment, what you mean?

 

Not sure if your post was referring to my post but what I mean is this......a plane loses power and starts to fall from the sky but the pilot manages to crash land the plane leaving the plane smashed to bits but no 1 dies they are just wounded ..... Strait away every one starts shouting it's a miracle God has saved them. (Devine intervention) .....two weeks later bus crashes...everyone dies.......no mention of God there then

I'd call it a plane crash. That they fly at all would be the miracle. We'll know soon enough how the plane crashed, and why the injuries and damage occurred. That is simple science. For bus crash it's the same. Years ago I went to an accident on the Interstate highway. A tour bus, rolled over in the fog, and landed on it's side across the lanes of traffic. Three cars drove through the center, and nobody was injured. The people were sitting in the front of the bus, and the passengers of the cars benefitted from modern automotive design. God did create human beings who took the time to advance the species as a whole. So, it was Gods will, but no miracle. You say that people declared a miracle when there were survivors in your example. What of it?

 

ATB

Bible says once you die, your then judged, you havent the capability to come back as a ghost, or anything else,,,:-)

So, no purgatory for you? As for spirits returning we think they can come under Gods will to petition for prayers.

 

For Accip 74 I saw your post before the edit. If I may... Your free will holds up as long as you live. At your judgment your choices pay off. Or not as the case may be.

 

ATB

Ok thanks, at least I know now that many hundreds of Catholic priests will be in trouble on their judgment day, that's comforting ;-)

Unless they sincerely repent.

Yep....god loves a sincere pedofile.....

[Mickey Finn 3,016]

He loves everyone. I guess that means them as well.

 

This opens a whole new issue regarding the victims, and entering heaven.

[Mickey Finn 3,016]

He loves everyone. I guess that means them as well.

 

This opens a whole new issue regarding the victims, and entering heaven.

I should say he loves a penitent pedophile.

[*The*Field*Marshall* 674]

“When does god's will end and personal choice begin” Accip, if you don't state it – someone else will, at some point! If I asked for it to be a bit more specific I guess I might be accused of burying my head in the sand! Something I haven't done regarding this question, as I've never been asked it before. I think this question would have to come form someone who believes in a God of some sort.

 

I'll give it a go, I can elaborate more specifically if need be. It's a great question, but one where any one answer will not appease everyone.
We are a bit limited by the English language here, but explaining it broadly I believe God's will comes in two forms: Sovereign will and General will. The difference would be making something happen and wanting it to happen. God's sovereign will was for me to be born with my DNA, culture and language. God's general will for me would be to live according to his commandments, which is essentially to love my neighbour as myself and to love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, mind and with all my strength. In doing those two things I would fulfil all other commandments.

 

God doesn't impose his will on us while we are alive, we have free choice within reason. I am free to spend my time, money and energy on whatever I wish to and so is most everyone else and that is why we have a world that is so sad and wicked in places. We cannot have the cake and eat it. I know folk who lay the blame on God for world poverty, but wouldn't so much as a cross the road to help someone they could. It's time we took accountability for ourselves, individually. On judgement day I will answer for my own life, not the lives others.

 

Think about this. Some people live a life full of torture, heartbreak and poverty. . With God they have a chance of forgetting a miserable earthly blink for a life of eternal bliss. Atheism offers simply no hope. Now that's no grounds for ruling out atheism or establishing there is a God. I've established that from my point of view elsewhere.

 

BH I am well familiar with your thinking and respect your point of view, which is largely sound and scientific - you believe what you can observe and test. Naturalistic thinking can get you so far, but not all the way (from my point of view) I'm thinking of a verse and a quote, nothing personal.

 

“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

‘Even if all the data point to an intelligent designer, such an hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic’ Dr Scott Todd, an immunologist at Kansas State University.

 

I believe natural thinkers have trouble believing and natural believers have trouble thinking! Too many Christians abandon their God given brain at thier peril!

[*The*Field*Marshall* 674]

And Q.B/Frazdog - again I've got to hand it to you mate, bravo. You have tirelessly defended the faith, you put me to shame! I can't say I agree with everything you've put up, I've only seen so much (a little) but from what I have seen it has been good and solid information. I hope people give some consideration to what you are putting up, rather than disqualify you on the grounds of quantity lacks quality! Steer clear of Kent Hovind though, whilst he may oppose what we oppose, he essentially is a fraudster and someone who has endured criticism from far more credible creationists.

 

Another point for the reading folk. Don't be put off Christ by a so called Christian. You can pick holes in us, but of our Lord and Saviour you cannot. We are mere men like anyone else, we have our own personalities, endure the same trials and troubles. After conversion it is our responsibility to conform to the likeness of Christ via being transformed by the renewing our minds (biblical terminology) Have a good evening folks!

[Truther 1,579]

 

If God made everything, who made Him? Ha, I trust that this old school boy question has already been answered, comprehensively. . Oh here I go jumping in out of sync!

 

I understand some may be sick to the back teeth of these God threads but it proves the point - that want to know the seemingly unknowable is inherent to mankind. Much like a turtle hatched on a beach that seeks to return to the ocean, its permanent abode. . So man has been made with an inbuilt inclination to know and return to his maker; and that is what I believe that old inquisitive nature is down to. I think some would acknowledge this whilst others may bury their heads in the sand, excuse the pun! This comprehension we have of future events is one of the things that set us apart from animals.

 

The Bible puts it this way "He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end" Ecclesiastes 3:11.

 

I believe that due to sin we are born lost and cut off from God. . Figuratively speaking it can feel like a hole in the soul, a missing part to the heart. . It can manifest itself in many ways, to some it can simply be an unquenchable thirst for knowledge, to others it can be a sense and feeling of being lonely and lost. That inclination I see suppressed all the time, some attempt satisfy it with drugs, alcohol, sex, religion, occult, work/career/education, hobbies anything. . But nothing else will do it, we are born to know the bigger picture and we must connect with our creator in order for that to happen. .

 

Ive seen all sorts, rich and poor turn to this trend and to that experience. . Nothing will satisfy, accept to know the truth of our identity and be at one with our creator, or Father as the Bible states. Who doesnt want to feel sense of love and belonging? It's not weak, that is simply the way we are made.

 

I was speaking to a physiatrist in work just the other day; he sweepingly and typically concluded that all religious experiences are purely down to an area of the brain. The look on his face when I responded Yes Dr, I believe God designed the brain to function that way.

 

If you have privilege of knowing someone whose life has and is being touched and changed by the life, death and teachings of Jesus Christ, youll notice a sense of peace, surety and clarity that you will not find elsewhere.

Ill end on this, remember we Christians are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand we know a lot of people dont like to hear our views, on the other hand we know that if any man or woman dies in a state of rejection of Jesus Christ and His gospel you will die and enemy and not a friend of the living God. .

Actually I can't be arsed :-)

 

 

I can, a smug, insulting, patronising crack pot...............the god police.

[Quarter bull 240]

Thanks mate, but I give all applause to the lord thy God.

 

I have to disagree with you on kent hovind, apart from him being the foremost creation scientist, pulling apart the evoloution philosophy, an proved without a doubt, that carbon dating, potassium argon dating etc is very flawed, an is not consistent nor technically sound, therefore cant be trusted, an is not trusted.

 

His tireless detailed work for the lord is astonishing, he goes down deep kicks every dog on way down,,,his words,,,his work is backed with, testable an observable evidence, which he has an in depth knowledge,, plus hes funny. Lol

 

Do you actually know what he was put in jail for, it certainly wasnt tax evasion,,,,they knew they couldnt do him for not filing a tax return,,,because theres no law stating its required,,,an he knew this,,,,,an they knew he knew,,,lol

 

No he was put in jail for, 48 counts of structuring,,,whats structuring,,,he an his wife was taking out their own money mind you,,,just under the 10,000 limit,,,he was taking out 9000,,9500 etc,,,,he done this 48 times, ,an thats what he was put in jail for,,, hes far from a fraudster,,,anyone could be done for it

 

Google forbes magazine, their tax reporter, explains it.

 

He is a great man of the lord fm

[Quarter bull 240]

Back to the topic,,,someone stated earlier that they couldnt worship or beleive or whatever, a God that killed people,,let me fill you in on this,,,God turned there enemys on these people,,why? There were evil to the bone, corrupted in every way apart from a few, ie noah an his family,,why were they so corrupt,, well this was a time when the sons of God ( fallen angels ) rebelled against the lord, came to earth,,which with they were supposed to guard an look after,,anyway they took them wives as they chose,,an their offspring " nephilim" which means earth born,, an giant,,in greek an hebrew,,,were mighty men,,men of renown.

 

These entitys were giants, between ten foot, to 30 foot tall,, evil to the core,,cannibals,,,mrderers paedophiles,child molesters"sodomists,,,ie sodomites,,,they had to be destroyed, there were comitting fornication with children, then sacraficing them to satan.

 

 

Satan tryed to corrupt mans lineage with his own,,because he knew,,the womans seed shall bruise his head,,,ie jesus,, gods prophecy in genisis,,,satan nearly completed this,,,so God sought the only righteous man not contaminated by satans evil genes,,,

 

Noah was a just man, a righteous man who loved the lord,,so God chose him to make a new covenant with him,,,noah was 400 years at this time an roughly 8 foot tall,,he was a smart man,,God gave him instructions to build the boat,,,its meaurements an details are in the bible also,,,now remember it had to float,,but not go anywere,,just withstand,,the rain,,an the fountains of the deep breaking open,,ie water under the earths crust,,,now the earth was more land than anything,,covered in lush forests,,an open pasture

,Thats how theres so much oil an coal deposits anyway,,noahs ark was craftmanship,,,with a excellent tool for withstanding high seas,,it had, ,a gap in the middle of it,,,temember it was more a barge than a boat,,like a square cut out of the middle,,I forget the name of this technique,,but it was great for wave control,an stopping it capsixe.

 

This was 1600 years after creation,,so there wasnt as many (species) as there are now, there were kinds of animals, that bring forth after their kind,,ie wolf,,,ie horse ie, some type of birds etc. Not all the diversity we have now,,an I would say, the divergence of todays animals came forth from these main kinds,,that bring forth after there KIND,,which is seen in nature today,,an thats all we see

 

So thats a quick round up an by fudge took me ages to type on phone lol