If God Made Everything, Who Made Him ?

[Quarter bull 240]

 

 

" only 13% said they were a convinced athiest "........How does it work with this athiesm then are you an unconvinced athiest until such time as somebody convinces you to be a convinced athiest ?

 

I was under the impression that agnostics believe only what they know/knowledge whereas theists and athiests believe in......well belief !........so how can anybody be an unconvinced athiest ? you either believe or you dont

The definitions are a little shaky. You're either a theist, agnostic, or atheist. Yes, Not Sure, No.

China is an interesting one, I was very surprised at that figure.....they do say that generally the more affluent countries are less religious, so why are the Brits near the bottom? lolI don't actually know that many people personally that would really label themselves......do you think that has something to do with only 13% convinced? I think a lot folk just aren't thinking much about it these days.....may never have a religious thought & at the same time reluctant to label themselves one way or the other, perhaps?

 

I agree with that. For me, religious belief is a product of geography. Most believers were indoctrinated as kids. Britains secular shift is starting to show in it's population as the poll shows. China has been hardcore communist since post WW2. The majority of their population has grown up under 'state is the religion.'

 

The Japanese killed over 12m Chinese people, in WW2! I'd say f**k your religion as well!

Chris your statment, of most beleivers were indoctrinated when they were kids,,, thats a stupid statment, you say your from america, are you really, well the situation in public schools in americs is total commy style indoctrination, isnt it,

 

Yes total indoctrination, not a sniff of creaçtion, an you might say, yeah yeah cause creation is lies or not science, the usual propaganda, an its being put out to the students its a fact, an if you even question it your laughed at or lose your grades, or even your job, an really evoloution is still a theory, an not observable or testable, therefore not

scientific,,,,,,who runs an owns the public schools, have a look an see if them folk care, now thats indoctrination...

 

On the other hand if a husband an wife have a child, is it not in their best interests to raise the child, to the best of their ability, an is it not their responsibility, to raise the child, the best way they see fit, so how is teaching your child,,you reading, your child,,, not the gov, or scientist, or not some atheist prick, who thinks their smarter than the average,,,,,so how is teaching your child moral standards, an about a creator, indoctrination, its called parenting....

 

 

Thats just a silly statment, an plus i was not indoctrinated, as a kid, so rethink your words nate

[sandymere 8,263]

Nullius in verba ( take no ones word for it ) The Royal Society chose this as its motto as “Science is the practise of learning not to fool yourself, and realising that you are the easiest person to fool.”

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Chris your statment, of most beleivers were indoctrinated when they were kids,,, thats a stupid statment,

 

It's not a stupid statement. Most people believe what their parents believe because they grow up in that environment. That's not just religion, that's pretty much everything. If your parents voted Labour, there's a high degree of certainty you will. If you're from Liverpool, you probably won't read The Sun. Not all, I concede, but the key word here is most.

 

You think these kids going to fight for ISIS weren't brought up in an environment where that is seen as a brave thing to do?

 

You think Chinese atheists have nothing to do with the ruling government?

 

you say your from america, are you really, well the situation in public schools in americs is total commy style indoctrination, isnt it,

 

I'm from Manchester.

 

Yes total indoctrination, not a sniff of creaçtion, an you might say, yeah yeah cause creation is lies or not science, the usual propaganda, an its being put out to the students its a fact, an if you even question it your laughed at or lose your grades, or even your job, an really evoloution is still a theory, an not observable or testable, therefore not

scientific,,,,,,who runs an owns the public schools, have a look an see if them folk care, now thats indoctrination...

 

You're absolutely free any time you wish to prove your point. Provide testable evidence to back your hypothesis, and confirm any of the validity of the bible.

 

So far all you've managed to do is call everyone a liar and contradict anything put in front of you.

 

 

On the other hand if a husband an wife have a child, is it not in their best interests to raise the child, to the best of their ability, an is it not their responsibility, to raise the child, the best way they see fit, so how is teaching your child,,you reading, your child,,, not the gov, or scientist, or not some atheist prick, who thinks their smarter than the average,,,,,so how is teaching your child moral standards, an about a creator, indoctrination, its called parenting....

 

Of course it's in their best interests but the way they see fit is generally dependent on geography. If you raised a kid in north korea, and told them that Kim Jong Il was a complete bellend your whole family will die in a gulag. Even though you're right.

 

If you want to raise your kid to believe in a book of fairy tales be my guest.

 

Thats just a silly statment, an plus i was not indoctrinated, as a kid, so rethink your words nate

That's the puzzler, for sure. As an athiest prick I honestly wonder how anyone can read that bronze age nonsense and feel they're smarter than the average athiest prick that says otherwise.

 

I know you've attempt to discredit the entire works of science on this thread, and it's generally been good natured, if a little silly, but you've still not proven anything you've contradicted it with!

 

If you're right leaves a massive hole in the workings of the universe.

 

If I suddenly turned around and believe that the entire collated works of science, to my understanding are wrong, it still does not prove the existence of god and it certainly doesn't validate the contents of your holy book.

 

So the dilemma is this...

 

Either the whole natural order of the universe has been suspended for your benefit.

 

Or you're wrong.

[the big chief 3,099]

who gives a shit just crack on with ya lives and try and live a little instead of thinking of this bollox

 

 

al be sein ya

[sandymere 8,263]

QB one surmises that you occasionally stumble over the truth, but you quickly pick yourself up and carry on as if nothing happened.

Edited April 14, 2015 by sandymere

[Quarter bull 240]

So you are a liar, youve told us on previous threads have you not?,,,,,,,that your from america,,,,,an i said it was stupid, not cause it werent true,, but because thats what parents do, raise their children how they see fit,,, an i wasnt calling you an atheist prick,, it was a dramatization.

 

The old creation vs science tactic, mate people dont fall for that bollox anymore, their is a wealth of actual scientific evidence for creation an young earth,,,,,,science supports creation,,, so dont be putting out the atheist scare tactic,,,,i love science, stuff i can see an test, an your religon i cant,,,

 

 

Oh an all our benifit, but sure from your angle it was an acceident lol yeah right

Edited April 14, 2015 by Quarter bull

[Quarter bull 240]

QB one surmises that you occasionally stumble over the truth, but you quickly pick yourself up and carry on as if nothing happened.

Not at all, ive seen nothing to show me otherwise, can you not just get the fact into your head, that we have different views, sandymere, ,, give your arrogance a rest hi

[sandymere 8,263]

Alas I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you..............................

[ChrisJones 7,975]

So you are a liar, youve told us on previous threads have you not?,,,,,,,that your from america,,,,,an i said it was stupid, not cause it werent true,, but because thats what parents do, raise their children how they see fit,,, an i wasnt calling you an atheist prick,, it was a dramatization.

 

I'm more of an agnostic prick than an athiest prick, though... Like I've said it's all about evidence!

 

Mate, I'm from Manchester. I was born there, raised there, and for a few years I've worked in Mojave Desert... Is that enough for you?

 

A couple of the members of THL's community of esteemed posters have even been out to visit me, but I won't name and shame to save their reputations!

 

If the Yanks wish to pay me money for my skills, why shouldn't I? I still visit Blighty but only enough to spend my capitalist dollars on my family! I think liar is a bit harsh, mate. I've never made any outlandish claims to the contrary.

 

If you ever want to head out this way let me know. We can go out and shoot things... Maybe blow shit up!

 

The old creation vs science tactic, mate people dont fall for that bollox anymore, their is a wealth of actual scientific evidence for creation an young earth,,,,,,science supports creation,,, so dont be putting out the atheist scare tactic,,,,i love science, stuff i can see an test, an your religon i cant,,,

 

I agree, people don't fall for that biblical bollocks any more. People are allowed to think for themselves and as a result they regularly refute religious dogma. You can tell your kids that the earth is flat, or that the sun hides at night, but sooner or later they'll figure out that all these anonymous authors hadn't got a clue what they were talking about. Theists are losing ground all the time, and eventually people won't be scared of the unknown anymore.

 

You say you're absolutely right but you have no evidence. We're at an impass, as far this debate goes.

 

I can show you entire libraries full of evidence but you'll just say it's bollocks!

 

 

Oh an all our benifit, but sure from your angle it was an acceident lol yeah right

 

Random chaos! Crazy isn't it that we have a common ancestor with amphibians isn't it!

 

You need a purpose, in life. I get that. That's fine. You're free to believe what you wish but the evidence doesn't support it. Like I said do you believe that natural order of the universe has been suspended for your benefit... or could you simply be wrong?

 

I'm quite comfortable with being an evolved primate. I think it's fascinating that not only have we evolved to be conscious of our existance, we've evolved to understand the process behind our existance! It's truly liberating!

 

All your team gave us was bronze age mythology and the Inquisition. Show us some real evidence and you'll have the entire scientific community to help you put the evolution myth, to rest, once and for all.

 

But...

 

Simply proving it wrong doesn't prove the existance of god, nor does it validate the bible!

[Quarter bull 240]

 

So you are a liar, youve told us on previous threads have you not?,,,,,,,that your from america,,,,,an i said it was stupid, not cause it werent true,, but because thats what parents do, raise their children how they see fit,,, an i wasnt calling you an atheist prick,, it was a dramatization.

I'm more of an agnostic prick than an athiest prick, though... Like I've said it's all about evidence!

 

Mate, I'm from Manchester. I was born there, raised there, and for a few years I've worked in Mojave Desert... Is that enough for you?

 

A couple of the members of THL's community of esteemed posters have even been out to visit me, but I won't name and shame to save their reputations!

 

If the Yanks wish to pay me money for my skills, why shouldn't I? I still visit Blighty but only enough to spend my capitalist dollars on my family! I think liar is a bit harsh, mate. I've never made any outlandish claims to the contrary.

 

If you ever want to head out this way let me know. We can go out and shoot things... Maybe blow shit up!

The old creation vs science tactic, mate people dont fall for that bollox anymore, their is a wealth of actual scientific evidence for creation an young earth,,,,,,science supports creation,,, so dont be putting out the atheist scare tactic,,,,i love science, stuff i can see an test, an your religon i cant,,,

I agree, people don't fall for that biblical bollocks any more. People are allowed to think for themselves and as a result they regularly refute religious dogma. You can tell your kids that the earth is flat, or that the sun hides at night, but sooner or later they'll figure out that all these anonymous authors hadn't got a clue what they were talking about. Theists are losing ground all the time, and eventually people won't be scared of the unknown anymore.

 

You say you're absolutely right but you have no evidence. We're at an impass, as far this debate goes.

 

I can show you entire libraries full of evidence but you'll just say it's bollocks!

 

Oh an all our benifit, but sure from your angle it was an acceident lol yeah right

Random chaos! Crazy isn't it that we have a common ancestor with amphibians isn't it!

 

You need a purpose, in life. I get that. That's fine. You're free to believe what you wish but the evidence doesn't support it. Like I said do you believe that natural order of the universe has been suspended for your benefit... or could you simply be wrong?

 

I'm quite comfortable with being an evolved primate. I think it's fascinating that not only have we evolved to be conscious of our existance, we've evolved to understand the process behind our existance! It's truly liberating!

 

All your team gave us was bronze age mythology and the Inquisition. Show us some real evidence and you'll have the entire scientific community to help you put the evolution myth, to rest, once and for all.

 

But...

 

Simply proving it wrong doesn't prove the existance of god, nor does it validate the bible!

Ok i apolagise for calling u a liar,,,all thee above is your opinion,,,,an i have family who live in florida, maybe i could take you up on this offer of yours, put a name to face lol....

 

Oh an bible states clearly the earth is circular in shape, thousands of years ago, well before our homo sapien sapien found out,,,,can you explain that,,,

 

 

Ok give me a minute, so i can read kids a wee story an we can talk evidence,,, lol

[Quarter bull 240]

Ok chris, lets talk evidence we can see, scientific lol

 

These are going to be for a young earth an universe, an tells us that its not billions or millions,but thousands...

 

What have you got to say about the "winding up dilema" as evoloutionary scientists like to call it..

 

Every theory they have come up with is thrown to the dustbin.....

 

Another,,,what have you got to say about the limited number of super novas, that we can see, they say that one explodes every 25 years an that the remnants of the explosion,vfkoats about for millions of years,,,,well why can we only find 200 super novas in space, that adds up to around six thousand years of existence for the universe.

 

This is science that we can see an test an observe, not long ago an far away.

[Quarter bull 240]

Im very slow at typing so ill will just copy an paste from my source, that ok cause im no scientist, lol, just a researcher....

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Ok i apolagise for calling u a liar,,,all thee above is your opinion,,,,an i have family who live in florida, maybe i could take you up on this offer of yours, put a name to face lol....

 

Oh an bible states clearly the earth is circular in shape, thousands of years ago, well before our homo sapien sapien found out,,,,can you explain that,,,

 

 

Ok give me a minute, so i can read kids a wee story an we can talk evidence,,, lol

 

No worries. The internet is wonderful way to misinterpret. No offence taken!

 

Speaking of misinterpretation, am I with these?

 

I Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."

Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm..."

Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable..."

Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."

Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."

 

How about the vault of heaven?

 

Job 37:18 "can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?"

 

Isn't that a hard physical shape in biblical times? Or am I misinterpreting?

 

Job 9:8, "...who by himself spread out the heavens..."

Psalm 19:, "The heavens tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven reveals his handiwork."

Psalm 102:25 "...the heavens were thy handiwork."

Isaiah 45:12 "I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens and caused all their host to shine..."

Isaiah 48:13 "...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky..."

 

And this one...

 

Matthew 4:8 "Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory."

 

He can see the entire world from the top of a mountain? Literally, or metaphorically?

 

Or is it open to interpretation?

 

Florida is way to humid for me! I'll stick the dry heat! Offer stands if you can make it this way!

[Truther 1,579]

To far gone Chris, not a bad lad really, but ignores a solid argument/evidence, waste of time really mate.

[Quarter bull 240]

Yeah what is your problem with these chris could you explain,,,,an no other bible is to be trusted, apart from k.j, not the new one,,, the k.j

 

I thought we were talking science here not our faiths?