''proper'' Pit Bulls

[downsouth 7,196]

 

 

 

 

Is gameness a gene which can be bred? If every dog has it in it too quit is gameness not more of an enviroment thing if thats the right word. Plenty of good proven dogs also never seem to be able to produce. Also sure plenty of quiters have gone on to produce. I guess breeding dogs is like a science in itself. Suppose i could watch a mayfield DVD lol. Just thought itll make a decent debate.

 

If gameness could be truly be bred for then there would be no curs.But I know one thing if I was into such things if I had the option of owning a hard biting cur with loads of ability or a super game dog with no ability and a weak bite I'd take the cur all day long.

Sure you might win more with a barnstorming rough cur but what have you really proved? Matching should always be about proving the gameness of your lines IMO, something a lot of breeders have forgotten in recent years sadly.

 

Obviously in an ideal world you'd have ability, hard mouth and gameness all in a neat little package but if I had to choose I'd have the soft mouthed wrestling deep game dog that will keep going for as long as it takes over a 10 minute wonder rough cur any day

So you'd rather go home with a dead dog and an empty pocket just so you could say yeah but wasn't he game.

Thats what it's all about isn't it? Gameness isn't just a trait that helps a bulldog win a match it's the whole essence of their being. If you wanted a dog that could finish quick without worrying about gameness there's breeds out there that could do the job better than a bulldog.

 

Obviously if you're a gambling man you'd be better off with the rough cur but to me that's not what matching is about, it's a test of what makes a bulldog a bulldog. At the end of the day breeders should focus on gameness alone and hope the rest falls into place IMO

So if bullyson could be cloned you wouldn't want him?

[gnasher16 30,025]

Does this dirty laundry really need airing on here lads?

Its a little bit late in the day to be going all clandestine mate.....around 15/20 years too late.

 

When kids can openly discuss activities that took place before they was even born you can safely say the horse has bolted on that score.

[gnasher16 30,025]

 

So if bullyson could be cloned you wouldn't want him?

 

With todays conditioning techniques and a dog who is as smart as his handler......no.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

Does this dirty laundry really need airing on here lads?

Its a little bit late in the day to be going all clandestine mate.....around 15/20 years too late.

 

When kids can openly discuss activities that took place before they was even born you can safely say the horse has bolted on that score.

Fox hunting is illegal with dogs yet it's talked about on a daily basis on here, we can't bury our heads in the sand and pretend it didn't happen. It's the box that made the Bulldog what it is and ignoring that is plain ignorance IMO.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

 

 

Is gameness a gene which can be bred? If every dog has it in it too quit is gameness not more of an enviroment thing if thats the right word. Plenty of good proven dogs also never seem to be able to produce. Also sure plenty of quiters have gone on to produce. I guess breeding dogs is like a science in itself. Suppose i could watch a mayfield DVD lol. Just thought itll make a decent debate.

 

If gameness could be truly be bred for then there would be no curs.But I know one thing if I was into such things if I had the option of owning a hard biting cur with loads of ability or a super game dog with no ability and a weak bite I'd take the cur all day long.

Sure you might win more with a barnstorming rough cur but what have you really proved? Matching should always be about proving the gameness of your lines IMO, something a lot of breeders have forgotten in recent years sadly.

 

Obviously in an ideal world you'd have ability, hard mouth and gameness all in a neat little package but if I had to choose I'd have the soft mouthed wrestling deep game dog that will keep going for as long as it takes over a 10 minute wonder rough cur any day

So you'd rather go home with a dead dog and an empty pocket just so you could say yeah but wasn't he game.

Thats what it's all about isn't it? Gameness isn't just a trait that helps a bulldog win a match it's the whole essence of their being. If you wanted a dog that could finish quick without worrying about gameness there's breeds out there that could do the job better than a bulldog.

 

Obviously if you're a gambling man you'd be better off with the rough cur but to me that's not what matching is about, it's a test of what makes a bulldog a bulldog. At the end of the day breeders should focus on gameness alone and hope the rest falls into place IMO

So if bullyson could be cloned you wouldn't want him?

Bullyson was not deep game but he was far from a rank cur, I don't think it's so black and white. I think everybody would have a dog of his quality on his yard.

[downsouth 7,196]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is gameness a gene which can be bred? If every dog has it in it too quit is gameness not more of an enviroment thing if thats the right word. Plenty of good proven dogs also never seem to be able to produce. Also sure plenty of quiters have gone on to produce. I guess breeding dogs is like a science in itself. Suppose i could watch a mayfield DVD lol. Just thought itll make a decent debate.

If gameness could be truly be bred for then there would be no curs.But I know one thing if I was into such things if I had the option of owning a hard biting cur with loads of ability or a super game dog with no ability and a weak bite I'd take the cur all day long.

Sure you might win more with a barnstorming rough cur but what have you really proved? Matching should always be about proving the gameness of your lines IMO, something a lot of breeders have forgotten in recent years sadly.

 

Obviously in an ideal world you'd have ability, hard mouth and gameness all in a neat little package but if I had to choose I'd have the soft mouthed wrestling deep game dog that will keep going for as long as it takes over a 10 minute wonder rough cur any day

So you'd rather go home with a dead dog and an empty pocket just so you could say yeah but wasn't he game.

Thats what it's all about isn't it? Gameness isn't just a trait that helps a bulldog win a match it's the whole essence of their being. If you wanted a dog that could finish quick without worrying about gameness there's breeds out there that could do the job better than a bulldog.

 

Obviously if you're a gambling man you'd be better off with the rough cur but to me that's not what matching is about, it's a test of what makes a bulldog a bulldog. At the end of the day breeders should focus on gameness alone and hope the rest falls into place IMO

So if bullyson could be cloned you wouldn't want him?

Bullyson was not deep game but he was far from a rank cur, I don't think it's so black and white. I think everybody would have a dog of his quality on his yard.

A curs a cur unless you want to start making excuses.He quit when he wasn't getting it his own way so he was a cur.

[BGD 6,436]

 

 

 

 

 

Is gameness a gene which can be bred? If every dog has it in it too quit is gameness not more of an enviroment thing if thats the right word. Plenty of good proven dogs also never seem to be able to produce. Also sure plenty of quiters have gone on to produce. I guess breeding dogs is like a science in itself. Suppose i could watch a mayfield DVD lol. Just thought itll make a decent debate.

If gameness could be truly be bred for then there would be no curs.But I know one thing if I was into such things if I had the option of owning a hard biting cur with loads of ability or a super game dog with no ability and a weak bite I'd take the cur all day long.

Sure you might win more with a barnstorming rough cur but what have you really proved? Matching should always be about proving the gameness of your lines IMO, something a lot of breeders have forgotten in recent years sadly.

 

Obviously in an ideal world you'd have ability, hard mouth and gameness all in a neat little package but if I had to choose I'd have the soft mouthed wrestling deep game dog that will keep going for as long as it takes over a 10 minute wonder rough cur any day

So you'd rather go home with a dead dog and an empty pocket just so you could say yeah but wasn't he game.

Thats what it's all about isn't it? Gameness isn't just a trait that helps a bulldog win a match it's the whole essence of their being. If you wanted a dog that could finish quick without worrying about gameness there's breeds out there that could do the job better than a bulldog.

 

Obviously if you're a gambling man you'd be better off with the rough cur but to me that's not what matching is about, it's a test of what makes a bulldog a bulldog. At the end of the day breeders should focus on gameness alone and hope the rest falls into place IMO

So if bullyson could be cloned you wouldn't want him?

 

Personally no I wouldn't.

[downsouth 7,196]

Well if I could own a dog that could produce the likes of honeybunch who then went on to become probably the best producing bitch of all time I'm sure id find space for him.

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is gameness a gene which can be bred? If every dog has it in it too quit is gameness not more of an enviroment thing if thats the right word. Plenty of good proven dogs also never seem to be able to produce. Also sure plenty of quiters have gone on to produce. I guess breeding dogs is like a science in itself. Suppose i could watch a mayfield DVD lol. Just thought itll make a decent debate.

If gameness could be truly be bred for then there would be no curs.But I know one thing if I was into such things if I had the option of owning a hard biting cur with loads of ability or a super game dog with no ability and a weak bite I'd take the cur all day long.

Sure you might win more with a barnstorming rough cur but what have you really proved? Matching should always be about proving the gameness of your lines IMO, something a lot of breeders have forgotten in recent years sadly.

 

Obviously in an ideal world you'd have ability, hard mouth and gameness all in a neat little package but if I had to choose I'd have the soft mouthed wrestling deep game dog that will keep going for as long as it takes over a 10 minute wonder rough cur any day

So you'd rather go home with a dead dog and an empty pocket just so you could say yeah but wasn't he game.

Thats what it's all about isn't it? Gameness isn't just a trait that helps a bulldog win a match it's the whole essence of their being. If you wanted a dog that could finish quick without worrying about gameness there's breeds out there that could do the job better than a bulldog.

 

Obviously if you're a gambling man you'd be better off with the rough cur but to me that's not what matching is about, it's a test of what makes a bulldog a bulldog. At the end of the day breeders should focus on gameness alone and hope the rest falls into place IMO

So if bullyson could be cloned you wouldn't want him?

Bullyson was not deep game but he was far from a rank cur, I don't think it's so black and white. I think everybody would have a dog of his quality on his yard.

A curs a cur unless you want to start making excuses.He quit when he wasn't getting it his own way so he was a cur.

Technically yeah, but it's not so black and white. Many a top dogman has bred from so called "curs"

[gnasher16 30,025]

Well if I could own a dog that could produce the likes of honeybunch who then went on to become probably the best producing bitch of all time I'm sure id find space for him.

 

You could cross the road without looking both ways and not get run over a hundred times a day.........but its not a sensible thing to do is it and only a fool would do it on purpose.........not implying your a fool you understand.

 

Bullyson was a very well bred cur why shouldnt he produce good dogs.

Edited February 20, 2015 by gnasher16

[South hams hunter 8,921]

If countries like Holland,Luxembourg,Greece etc could do it so could we.......we f****d it pure and simple.....having had some of the great purebred family dogs created over mens life times from around the world what do we have to show for it......................some good lurchers !!!......If thats not a sporting tragedy i dont know what is.

id say the opposite actually because lurchers are bred, owned and worked for the love of a dog thats good at its job andable to complete the required task where as the bulldog game is all money. A lurcher does its job and theres no or very little financial gain, can that honestly be said for pures?

[South hams hunter 8,921]

 

Whether or not the british wasted the blood they certainly have been used to produve some good lurchers :

- danns/mcartnys ch general produced general, buck, daz, bruno, bullet, dak etc right upto present day dogs

- nkks joe montanna still has lurchers around

- hks knuckles produced punch, flyn, tag, bella, havoc, burty, meg etc.

aswell as reece dogs, pye dogs, golly dogs, wrecking crew dogs without whatever else has come from the different dogs/lines that have graced this country.

what I think people struggle to remember yes the blood may not be kept well in the uk but we are a country smaller than us states with little room to keep or produve big yards/bloodlines.

-

- marley produced marley, rio, remus, zap etc. Etc.

At least half of you're post mentions dogs bred out of stuff that wouldn't even get mentioned in bulldog circles.

no I suppose they wouldnt but im sure joe would, knuckles parents would and so would general. Also heard both swamper and badger were used for lurchers but not sure how true that is

[downsouth 7,196]

 

Well if I could own a dog that could produce the likes of honeybunch who then went on to become probably the best producing bitch of all time I'm sure id find space for him.

 

You could cross the road without looking both ways and not get run over a hundred times a day.........but its not a sensible thing to do is it and only a fool would do it on purpose.........not implying your a fool you understand.

 

Bullyson was a very well bred cur why shouldnt he produce good dogs.

Thats what I'm getting at there's no real formula to breeding deep game dogs.Butif you was going to keep these kind for the purpose of working them surely you want a dog to get in there and get the job done.

[YOKEL 2,216]

To me, it is the schooling and rolling/testing of young stock that shows you what they are made of. Are they worth breeding from/matching etc. You should know all about you prospect by the time matches are made. Matching is gambling pure and simple, prooving your dog is better than his opponent...j.m.o...

Yokel.

[BGD 6,436]

To me, it is the schooling and rolling/testing of young stock that shows you what they are made of. Are they worth breeding from/matching etc. You should know all about you prospect by the time matches are made. Matching is gambling pure and simple, prooving your dog is better than his opponent...j.m.o...

Yokel.

 

That's a good way of looking at it and in an ideal world it's how things would be done but the problems come when breeders are scared of losing a good prospect testing and rolling it hard before they've made money off matching and breeding it. That's how you end up with these barnstomers that seem like great bulldogs and get put over 100s of bitches until they have to fight against the odds and end up standing the line.