Educating The Public About Airgunning

[bigmac 97kt 13,795]

even better you could use one as a hide

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Murphydog 30]

 

In addition, both I and my target were more than 50ft from any public highway (so def legal)...but I'm not sure of the wider rules here. I think only the shooter actually needs to be 50ft away from a road. Is this true?

 

So imagine you walk, from a road, 50ft into a field, then turn and shoot at something in the field, but back towards the road.....is that legal? I do know of a case from about 40 years ago (my uncle) where someone did get fined for not being 50ft from the road when shooting, but he was shooting into the field with acres to spare behind his shot / target. Nonetheless, against the law. I have always aired on the side of caution and ensured i dont shoot back in such directions if the 50ft rule cant be honoured....but i do think the law is ambigious. Anyone got a suggestion? The options are;

 

Shooter must be at least 50ft from a road / highway (this is clear)

Target must be at least 50ft from a road (unclear)

Both must be more than 50ft from a road (?)

 

Not from the road, the term is carriageway and the distance is from the centre. Only illegal then IF you cause alarm, distress or risk etc to the users of said carriageway.

Footpaths don't come under the same rule, neither do bridleways and certainly not public footpaths on agricultural land. Commonsense is the key, with a silenced sub 12 just stay out of sight, use a silent backstop and make sure no pellet can ever cross your boundary.

You can quite legally shoot in your garden as long as you are safe and sensible.

The term is Highway, not carriageway. Footpaths are highways and so are bridleways.

 

The law: It is an offence to discharge a firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway, if doing so would cause a nuisance or endangering the public.

 

Highway classification

Common law has established that a highway is a defined route over which "the public at large" can pass and repass as frequently as they wish, without hindrance and without charge. The use must be as of right and not on sufferance or by licence. There is no clear statutory definition of a highway.

A highway can be established at common law or created by statute. For more information, see Practice notes, Establishing highways at common law and Highway creation by statute.

Highway is open to everyone. This is the essence of highway. It means that technically it is unnecessary to refer to public highway. There is no such thing as a private highway. A highway can be privately maintainable, but the public's rights of passage over it are the same as if it were a publicly maintainable highway of the same class.

 

The common law defined three categories of highway:

Footpath.

Bridleway.

Carriageway.

[Dr B 186]

Hi Simon

 

Many thanks for your continuued guidance - I really appreciate it. I'm more used to shooting in the Lake district, very rural and remote - no one really has an issue and the majority of people subscribe to the 'country way' of life and accept it, even if they do not participate. However, I'm based (for work) in the midlands most of my time at the moment - very different - populated - lots of law and although I always shoot within the law I am more conscious here of trying to keep neighbours happy, especially in my new place. So I've decided to go the extra mile.

 

I want the coarse straw bails - probably but about 6 - 8 of them, and use that as the backstop. Time to go Googling for a supplier.....

[Dr B 186]

Simon has it right with the bales DrB as do you. I use them to put targets ( paper ) onto. Thats if I want to vary my practice range a bit, overkill in my situation but they are silent. I use pellet traps though, at distance they are the best thing for paper Bisley targets.

I think too many shooters are being intimidated from carrying out a lawful activity. The law is clear, I admit I am luckier than most, however if faced with a constant whiner tell them their moaning constitutes harassment. Also that you will make a complaint against them. I carry an iphone now when shooting, its not happened yet, but any "incident" and I will record the exchange for my own use later.

For too long we have been "put upon" by antis. They have to respect our rights if they want theirs respecting too.

 

 

Hi John

 

Thanks man, really appreciate your view on this. I think others reading this discussion will also benefit. I just want to make sure i'm 'bullet proof' (pardon the pun) if the Rozzers come knocking because of an idiot neighbour

[Dr B 186]

Hey Bigmac

 

Great pics man, perhaps a bit of 'overkill' for a surburban garden.....looks cool though.....

 

Brought back memories from when I was a teenager and worked on farms. I had to bag those big babies.......bloody hundreds of them....but that work paid for my HW80 back in the day...

[Dr B 186]

Murphydog - nice one and thanks for the time and effort you've put in on that.

 

I am still a little confused as to whether the placement of my target needs to be more than 50ft away from the centre of a highway or not, but I might go talk to the fuzz about it directly. Is it possible to call them and get them to come round and assess the situation - or would that me wasting their time?

[Murphydog 30]

Timmytree. Great post and clarification. Thank you.

[Dr B 186]

Thanks TimmyTree.....so its the 'shooter' that needs to be 50ft away (i.e., discharge of gun) from the highway or whatever, which was what I had thought, though some nice clarification there about 'highways'. Great.

 

 

PS - by chance I bumped into both my neighbours today and explained to them I'm getting some straw bails and what it is for. They were totally cool and one asked if his son could come round and have a go sometime (so nice). They did, both by chance, tell me that a guy who lives in a house about 30ft from the bottom of our gardens - is an arse, and will likely complain. They had both had issues with him over the years. He is an habitual liar apparently and very argumentative and very 'anti', but both encouraged me to shoot to my hearts content in my own garden - which was nice.

 

That's another reason I've been asked about proximety of target to highway (not just shooter). Beyond my garden fence is an access road and then, just off to the side, some more houses. My garden is about 50-60yards long. The fence at the bottom is about 7ft high and very secure. But I need to ensure that my targets are far enough away from this road, even though its on the opposite side of the fence. Luckily when you do the math, I can set the target up at my preferred zero distance (about 28yds) and both I and the target are far enough away from the road cutting round the back of my garden fence.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Dr B

[John Stott 202]

My pleasure, read it carefully though because it's easy to miss an important fact. Just as an example, one of my permissions borders a lane, my hide is in a hedge and no more than 20 ft from the centre of the lane. It is not illegal to sit there with a gun, neither is it illegal to fire a shot. It only becomes a problem if you endanger someone or disrupt them from going about their lawful business, the onus is on them to prove it.

Basically you can shoot right alongside a road as long as you're sensible and preferably screened from public view.

One other point I find interesting, shotgun pellets or rifle bullets falling outside your boundary is a civil offence which the police aren't really interested in, letting an airgun pellet cross a boundary is a criminal offence! Stupid situation but that's the law for you.

Knowing your rights doesn't stop confrontation with idiots particularly on public footpaths but at least you will be able to argue the point if the police get involved.

Regards

Tim

Theres also "air trespass" to consider. A bit vague legally but it is illegal for a person to infringe on your airspace with a lead projectile! I had a run in with my neighbour a few years back. He was firing rimmy over my boundary, ricochets the lot. As my grand daughter plays in the paddock it was clearly not on. FLO read the riot act to him of course and told me I could ask for his FAC to be taken away due to air trespass. As to whether they are civil or criminal, I think it takes an injury or a serious threat to life afore plod will act. Apart from not understanding the law most are too lazy.

[Dr B 186]

Wow John, that's really bad that you had rimfire coming into your garden. I think the part of the law which states your pellet / ammo must not go beyond your own bounday would cover that so he would definately be in the wrong there. His shots must remain on his land.

 

I'm learning a lot in this thread!

[pianoman 3,587]

I understand FAC air rifles and full-bore/rimfire cartridge rifles are forbidden from being shot in gardens I believe. The police will not clear gardens as suitable shooting land as they are just not big enough on average; and way too close to other people's borders and their rightful accesses to their own gardens.

 

If you have rimfire rounds flying through/over your boundaries the shooter responsible is in deepest poo.

[barrywhite 282]

I am not saying I am correct . as I understand this projectiles leaving your property and going into a neighbours was always a no no but a civil matter called physical invasion or constructive trespass or some such .this was made a criminal offence for air gun only by ..the prudent chancellor while he was our master .

Edited February 14, 2015 by barrywhite

[John Stott 202]

He moved here from Scotland where he had shot over a few hundred acres. He is what is known as a "self certifier" ie he receives no inspection visits, the police just accept he complies with regulation. As he is a gun dog breeder, shoots on some fairly prestigious pegs, well he got under their radar. It was only a complaint from us that brought the FLO around. He himself admitted that four acres is not suitable for rimfire, also that he would not have issued a an FAC or SL for that amount of land.

With regard to air trespass, BASC legal were clear with me. Its a civil matter for any projectile to infringe airspace over your property. This is only allowed where the shooter has your specific permission to discharge any weapon for pest control or pleasure shooting. It becomes a criminal issue if there is "injury, distress or criminal intent".

The lessons learned? Well a self certifier can move anywhere and get away without a visit, they just register with the county force they move to.

You are on your own in this, the police are reluctant to get involved. The FLO said it was complicated to remove a certificate. Only the Chief Constable can approve, they do not like doing it, as invariably it involves appeal and court costs for them.

So, moral of this, for me at least. Educate yourself, plod ie ordinary plod, unless shooters themselves, have no knowledge of firearms law. Join BASC, they are first rate and willing to help.

Be safe in your own practices, be assertive but polite when dealing with problems. Sadly, treat Joe Public as the ignorant people they are. Accept that and it is half of the battle.

Also, shooting sub 12lb safely in a garden is legal. You do not need permission unless you are in rented accommodation ( landlord )

Lastly, join a gun club. Folk there are on your side. Advice is free and it opens many doors. Do not be afraid to challenge others perceptions, this is where being polite comes in. And, if possible, record any conversations you have. I intend to if ever its a problem. Do not feel guilt about your chosen hobby, Joe Public has rights. So, funnily do we.

[random 659]

Good post that John stott,useful info being passed around on this thread...

[Dr B 186]

Great Info John

 

I'm just about to join a gun club....there is a waiting list!!!! Looking forward to it

Edited February 15, 2015 by Dr B