Looking For Some Advice . . .

[paulsmithy83 567]

another thing to add into equation there many a lurcher out there the first one or two thry dicks with then bam they retrieve 100% all night to hand. Seen that it a few peoples dogs some that even bag alot Some to the extreme first rabbit they eat the head then bam from then on 100% live to hand rest of nighy. For a dog that hasmt really caught alot yet being young and lack of game. Lsts be honest is just pure lack of experience. Not posters fault just how game goes.

[chris87 297]

Paulysmithy83 my young bitch does put her first rabbit of night down and chomp it couple of times till its dead and then after that its straight back live to hand and the really funny thing is her sire used to do the same!!

[Ideation 8,216]

Thanks for the advice and keep it coming, there is a lot to think about there.

 

Casso, I have decided to go back to doing a lot more tug stuff, rather than straight retrieving and to also feed her by hand from now on.

 

Also taking her out with the gun, to make myself more a part of the kill / catch.

 

And will be taking a couple of folk on here up on their offers of nights / days out.

 

Joe - both of those things are very likely reality.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Ideation

[hewastheboy 77]

Just off out the door, so only a quick reply.

 

Thanks for the advice so far - my natural thoughts was bombard her with bunnys, and do it on my own.

 

The problem - there are no rabbits on my land any more or near by, so getting her on lots of game involves either poaching or going out with other folk, but very difficult when you have to go find your dog after every run as she is off burying a rabbit in the hedge. It makes it almost impossible to get her on a lot of bunnys on the lamp.

 

She does it when I am alone with her now.

right go poching all ground is mine after 11 oclock lol go on your own flood her with rabbits and just a thought it may of been already said I have not read all the way through could you not try to trade her of like a hawk take a pocket full of treats when she got bugs bunny in her mouth quietly call her all nicey nicey as soon as she drops the rabbit give her a treat to stop her burying it go home when she retreves anything to you give a treat she should retrieve for treat in the end be it rabbit or a ball gently does it no shouting she got to bring you her prize because she likes you not afraid of you

[Ideation 8,216]

OK, now i'm not against poaching and have done enough over the years.

 

 

But when trying to work with a dog that's disappearing into the darkness to hide rabbits, I don't really want to be driving hours and going blind onto land that may be hot.

 

Different if the dog was acting well and just didn't have the game in front of it.

 

It's weird mate i've tried the treat route etc, I can be as nicey nicey as I like, even standing next to her, while she is nosing grass over the rabbit, and all she does is try to get it done quicker, in order to revert to normal and come to me, get the treat etc. It's like her head malfunctions, and then reboots.

 

She retrieves balls, sticks, rabbit skin dummys etc.

 

She can also be put in the back of a car with other dogs and dead rabbits and doesn't try to be possessive of them, bury them in the straw in the boot or fight the other dog over them . . . . she just ignored them.

 

She retrieved a stick today. . . . and then totally walked past and ignored some dead rabbits lying on the floor of the garage. . . . .

 

There is no real sense to it. Quite possibly its hormonal, but i'm trying a few things.

 

Edited to add - she has the best recall and bond with me of any dog I've had or have here, other than the collie. She is certainly not scared of me. . . . but I would say she has a 'paranoid mind', she thinks too much.

 

Joe777, Johnny boy etc have all met her and will testify that she is a fairly normal, well rounded dog in all other respects.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Ideation

[Casso 1,261]

A tug item might be ok but I would be more concentrated on food ,

Not just hand feed but really make her work for it, pushing in through resistance of your left hand on her lower neck, front feet off the ground with you standing to get to the food in your right , she may not do it at the start as the resistance may be too much for her but you will see progress as she becomes more comfortable with giving you her energy ,

The higher the temperament in a dog the easier the exercise will be, more sensitive ones will struggle at the start

 

It's not the hand feeding as such it's pushing through Your resistance to feed, that's the key element.

[MOUSE TRAP 19]

Had a dog she was fine retrieved to hand always then a friend started bringing his dog with us only for the walk she started doing the same not brining it back when walking out to her she would just keep going further away and it would be a field away to burry them even when other dogs weren't they she still done it she was about 3 when this started happening

[Allan P 1,149]

Casso can you explain what you mean. I find what you say interesting but don't really understand how it relates or would stop the dog burying it's catch. Sorry to high jack the thread a bit Ideation but I had/have the same problem. If I don't keep on top of it with Skycats tug training it all goes pear shaped again especially working away for up to 28 days at a time. I get the dog retrieving fine then leave for work again come home and have to start from scratch again.

[Guest vin]

Casso can you explain what you mean. I find what you say interesting but don't really understand how it relates or would stop the dog burying it's catch. Sorry to high jack the thread a bit Ideation but I had/have the same problem. If I don't keep on top of it with Skycats tug training it all goes pear shaped again especially working away for up to 28 days at a time. I get the dog retrieving fine then leave for work again come home and have to start from scratch again.

 

Don't go away then mate...Problem solved. lol. Consistency is the key in all training... Not that I need to tell any of you lot that.

[Casso 1,261]

Casso can you explain what you mean. I find what you say interesting but don't really understand how it relates or would stop the dog burying it's catch. Sorry to high jack the thread a bit Ideation but I had/have the same problem. If I don't keep on top of it with Skycats tug training it all goes pear shaped again especially working away for up to 28 days at a time. I get the dog retrieving fine then leave for work again come home and have to start from scratch again.

 

 

Dogs are both predator and prey, the prey element in a dog is the fear point , the predator is the calm eager conifident pushy forcefull side,

Most of the quirks in the dogs character are caused by a fear imprint at some stage in its development , the predator side just needs to be channeled

Working with a tug item Skyccat stylie ?is exercising the predator up close and personal, two predators alining around a prey item yourself and the mutt, it's how wolves form social bonds same principle, it's also the final point of the hunt , the killing action, all the tension resolved into the grab and shake,

The tug item generates energy in the dog, what I mean by that the dog is energised by the item , it's stimulated and primed , energy is there for work and then it's grounded into the item , it's the perfect miniature hunt , load (item) unload (grabbing and shaking) after that the dog is grounded and fulfilled , same as any hunt and you were part of it , it's a win win ,

 

Food also energised the mutt , but there is no energetic output with food but the dog is energised it's loaded, energy must go to ground , it can't just disappear , Food is the single biggest cause of sparks flying in the dog world,

 

So before I give a pup a problem that could turn funny i give him the answer , when a pup takes food and buries it , he is literally acting on what he feels inside , he is dissipating energy, eating is not enough to ground what he feels inside , hes not seeing food the way we see it , he is grounding energy ,

I make a pup push for food, he uses me as the ground ,energy like electricity must go to ground , food produces energy in the mutt I get the pup pushing to channel that energy. Physics ,

 

When I say food produces energy in a pup/dog , it means it produces an energetic input, and for every input there must be an output, look at it this way the sight of a bunny (input)produces an enegetic response (output)running or pulling on lead , barking , etc , food is the same its causes a response in the dog which can turn to fear because it's an unaddressed input

Most dogs are grounded enough into their owners not to act on the fear but pups have really probs at times with food and bones

Edited February 4, 2015 by Casso

[shaaark 10,709]

 

Casso can you explain what you mean. I find what you say interesting but don't really understand how it relates or would stop the dog burying it's catch. Sorry to high jack the thread a bit Ideation but I had/have the same problem. If I don't keep on top of it with Skycats tug training it all goes pear shaped again especially working away for up to 28 days at a time. I get the dog retrieving fine then leave for work again come home and have to start from scratch again.

 

Dogs are both predator and prey, the prey element in a dog is the fear point , the predator is the calm eager conifident pushy forcefull side,

Most of the quirks in the dogs character are caused by a fear imprint at some stage in its development , the predator side just needs to be channeled

Working with a tug item Skyccat stylie is exercising the predator up close and personal, two predators alining around a prey item yourself and the mutt, it's how wolves form social bonds same principle, it's also the final point of the hunt , the killing action, all the tension resolved into the grab and shake,

The tug item generates energy in the dog, what I mean by that the dog is energised by the item , it's stimulated and primed , energy is there for work and then it's grounded into the item , it's the perfect miniature hunt , load (item) unload (grabbing and shaking) after that the dog is grounded and fulfilled , same as any hunt and you were part of it , it's a win win ,

 

Food also energised the mutt , but there is no energetic output with food but the dog is energised it's loaded, energy must go to ground , it can't just disappear , Food is the single biggest cause of sparks flying in the dog world,

 

So before I give a pup a problem that could turn funny i give him the answer , when a pup takes food and buries it , he is literally acting on what he feels inside , he is dissipating energy, eating is not enough to ground what he feels inside , hes not seeing food the way we see it , he is grounding energy ,

I make a pup push for food, he uses me as the ground ,energy like electricity must go to ground , food produces energy in the mutt I get the pup pushing to channel that energy. Physics ,

 

lol, top stuff

Edited February 4, 2015 by shaaark

[matt1979 766]

Some interesting stuff on this thread enjoyed reading it and I think the retrive is certainly an area many struggle with. Just to add i know my old man has had a problem with one specific dog especially when they are around other dogs, a method my dad uses and it's seems to have worked with this particular dog, has been to get as good a retrieve as possible with a rabbit for example, the rabbit is then gutted there and then (takes a few seconds) and the heart etc is given to the dog. I guess it is an immediate and linked reward for the dog and seems to have worked. Interestingly the same dog retrieves perfectly on the lamp or if the rabbit caught isn't chased ie caught in cover. This would suggest I guess a link between the adrenaline rush and the dogs state of mind about retrieve atb not really a complicated idea but seems to have worked in this instance

[chris87 297]

 

Casso can you explain what you mean. I find what you say interesting but don't really understand how it relates or would stop the dog burying it's catch. Sorry to high jack the thread a bit Ideation but I had/have the same problem. If I don't keep on top of it with Skycats tug training it all goes pear shaped again especially working away for up to 28 days at a time. I get the dog retrieving fine then leave for work again come home and have to start from scratch again.

 

 

Dogs are both predator and prey, the prey element in a dog is the fear point , the predator is the calm eager conifident pushy forcefull side,

Most of the quirks in the dogs character are caused by a fear imprint at some stage in its development , the predator side just needs to be channeled

Working with a tug item Skyccat stylie ?is exercising the predator up close and personal, two predators alining around a prey item yourself and the mutt, it's how wolves form social bonds same principle, it's also the final point of the hunt , the killing action, all the tension resolved into the grab and shake,

The tug item generates energy in the dog, what I mean by that the dog is energised by the item , it's stimulated and primed , energy is there for work and then it's grounded into the item , it's the perfect miniature hunt , load (item) unload (grabbing and shaking) after that the dog is grounded and fulfilled , same as any hunt and you were part of it , it's a win win ,

 

Food also energised the mutt , but there is no energetic output with food but the dog is energised it's loaded, energy must go to ground , it can't just disappear , Food is the single biggest cause of sparks flying in the dog world,

 

So before I give a pup a problem that could turn funny i give him the answer , when a pup takes food and buries it , he is literally acting on what he feels inside , he is dissipating energy, eating is not enough to ground what he feels inside , hes not seeing food the way we see it , he is grounding energy ,

I make a pup push for food, he uses me as the ground ,energy like electricity must go to ground , food produces energy in the mutt I get the pup pushing to channel that energy. Physics ,

 

When I say food produces energy in a pup/dog , it means it produces an energetic input, and for every input there must be an output, look at it this way the sight of a bunny (input)produces an enegetic response (output)running or pulling on lead , barking , etc , food is the same its causes a response in the dog which can turn to fear because it's an unaddressed input

Most dogs are grounded enough into their owners not to act on the fear but pups have really probs at times with food and bones

Great post, thanks for that!!

[Ideation 8,216]

Some great posts and help on this thread, thank a lot and keep it coming. I think if this does get fixed, it will be a long old road. At least she is still ok on other stuff.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation Casso, i'm going to try to implement it. Yesterday was the first day of hand feeding and it took quite a lot for the bitch to eat her biscuits out of my hand, meat is fine. I'll try adding the resistance in the next couple of days.

[fluff 409]

your lucky you getting free tips i had to pay for mines in the circle of life , learning from mistakes and my older mates , no computers or all that shit