Winny Subs, Old Blue Box V New Black.

[courser 73]

I know that this has been discussed before but After two years of shooting Winchester super X (Blue Box) subs in my CZ 542 with great results, I bought two bricks of the new black box. What a difference!! The new black are terrible!! one in three will not cycle or they will not eject and I have to use a cleaning rod to push them out. After the first session I measured the few blue box I had left and the black to compare. The black box bullets were on average 4 thou longer, could this be the reason?

I tried again at the next session, but with some Eley as backup. With the winny's, same problem, on average one in four refusing to cycle or not ejecting.

I then fired fifty rounds of eley without a single problem.

I now have two bricks of Winchester subs that are useless. I can only hope that they will be OK in my 10/22.

Any comments will or advice will be welcome.

 

 

 

[slipper 116]

The only difference I noticed is that the newer winnies seem to be harder, pass straight through a rabbits head whereas the older ones used to mushroom more

[drut 9]

Have had the same problem to the point of changing to RWS/Eley/SK at the beginning of last year.However although my CZ452 is happy with them,my old Brno 581 only did well with the old Winchesters so I reluctantly bought a brick of Winnies(the new black box ones) a month ago,fortunately this batch shoots as well as the old blue box ones.I am left to wonder if they have had a passing problem or ongoing issues that make picking an accurate batch a lottery.I would like to hear any reports about the new 42gr Winnies in case their quality control/batch consistency is better than the 40gr.

[Tremo 138]

The only difference I noticed is that the newer winnies seem to be harder, pass straight through a rabbits head whereas the older ones used to mushroom more

Same here. They do seem quite a bit tougher to me also. I cannot comment on their ability to cycle well though as I haven't even used a full box as yet. My 1417 prefers Eley.

[nasher1 258]

Good luck using them in the 10/22 but I wouldn't hold out much hope

[Rikweller 14]

Put 50 eley target rounds through mine on the range to zero with great groupings, so then went to the field to use my nice new blocks of black whinnies thought a bit of zero would be required but found a lot of flyers, have bought some eley hollow points now to see if these are better, must admit they look better build quality

[andyf 144]

This 'downward' trend in .22 Winchester may well be the result of the American ammo shortage, causing all and any of the main

ammo manufacturers to go to 'any' lengths to get production up, and profits made.

Winchester (that's the 'real' stuff 'blue box' was made by Olin industries in Australia), I haven't seen the new stuff in black boxes yet

but I wouldn't be surprised if they are made 'somewhere else' i.e. Mexico or Brazil typically and made cheaper and inferior?

Anyway (smugly) I have a load of Winchester blue box, and some RWS & Geco all of which are superb in my Sako.

I've found the Geco target solids are the best in rifle, but of course not much good for Rabbits as they always pass through leaving a neat

22 calibre hole, and they ricochet something evil, but the RWS are a good second choice if you can find any.

The CLA Gamefair has been a banker for me in the past, there's a stand that pretty much only sells .22 ammo and specialised 12g

cartridges (Alphamax, Magnum & non lead wildfowling stuff), he has had nearly all of the major brands in quantity.

Good luck with this one though as it looks like the current situation is here to stay.

[Rikweller 14]

Curiosity got the better of me last night and I decided to stand 50 eley hollowpoint next to 50 black boxed Winnie hollows and the eley looked far better quality and equal in manufacture. The winchesters were all different and not one similar in size or shape.

May explain a few things

[Tremo 138]

The only one negative point that I did hear about Eley subs was that some enthusiasts found the bullet coating to be too "waxy", and as a result they experienced some feeding and cycling issues. In my experience though this has never been the case through my rifle.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Good luck using them in the 10/22 but I wouldn't hold out much hope

No me neither, my CZ 511 is not fond of them, yet cycles superbly with Eley's.

[Coypu Hunter 486]

My Zastava bolt-action cycles everything except CCIs, which stick in the breech.

 

I tested the Winchester black box a couple of years ago, when they first replaced the blue box here in France. Very little difference, although I found the black box jobbies grouped slightly more tightly at 65 yards, probably due to their more consistent velocity. Maybe I was unlucky and got a good batch?

 

Blue box ten-shot string: average 1071 fps; low 1038, high 1090, spread 52 fps.

 

Black box ten-shot string: average 1077 fps; low 1068, high 1087, spread 19 fps.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Coypu Hunter

[courser 73]

I do not clean the barrel of my CZ 452 as a rule, but I will try again when next I visit the range. With the clean barrel I will fire ten fouling shots of black box winnies and then twenty four shots in groups of three and will note the problems. I will then clean the barrel and do the same with the last few rounds of blue winnies and then again with Eley Practice. All at fifty meters. We will see what we will see.

courser.

Edited February 2, 2015 by courser

[kenj 131]

I used Eley subs in my Magtech 7022 semi auto without a blip, but had supply problems in my area and was recommended Winchest SX in the blue box. They were unbelievably bad with that. rifle. This was my comparision http://www.urbanfieldsportsman.com/index.php/eley-22-subsonics-v-winchester-sx-subs-in-magtech-7022-mossberg-702-semi-autos/ . The answer was RWS subs, which cycle and are as accurate as the Eley. I still can't get Eleys and have just bought another 500 RWS, which I hope to be as good as the last batch. Any reports on the 42 grain Winchesters yet.