Illegal

[CharlieT 32]

 

Come on Charlie.........

 

 

The circumstances of that are nowhere close to letting go with a starting pistol in a Public Park, and the Judge basically told everyone to ***** off, and stop wasting his time and public money!

 

 

 

Actually, the circumstances are pretty similar.

 

The two women were arrested, charged, prosecuted and found guilty of having an imitation firearm, a starting pistol, in a public place.

It was only on appeal that the case was quashed and the Appeal Court Judge made the comments you refer to.

 

Had one of the ladies not appealed the conviction, at great expense, both would still have a criminal conviction.

[Alsone 789]

 

 

so, do they walk down the high street letting go with a launcher/starting pistol.

 

Quite seriously where did I ever suggest that? Great word twist!

 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Alsone

[Alsone 789]

Come on Charlie.........

 

The circumstances of that are nowhere close to letting go with a starting pistol in a Public Park, and the Judge basically told everyone to ***** off, and stop wasting his time and public money!

 

 

 

Yes Deker, exactly the same. Wood with public access, public park, both areas of public access.

 

True, the judge did tell the police to stop wasting public money but only after the women had been arrested, questioned and put through how many weeks / months of torture by the possibility of going to jail until the judge threw it out.

 

Above you questioned me as being ridiculous for even suggesting that someone might use a blank firing pistol for gun training in a public place but now you're suggesting that it was ridiculous that they were arrested for doing so.

 

At least take a consistent line. You either don't think it's anything people would do and so don't support anyone that stupid, or you do support it and they shouldn't have been arrested as using it in a public place was OK. It you can't play it both ways according to how the thread swings.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Alsone

[Deker 3,478]

 

Come on Charlie.........

 

The circumstances of that are nowhere close to letting go with a starting pistol in a Public Park, and the Judge basically told everyone to ***** off, and stop wasting his time and public money!

 

 

 

Yes Deker, exactly the same. Wood with public access, public park, both areas of public access.

 

True, the judge did tell the police to stop wasting public money but only after the women had been arrested, questioned and put through how many weeks / months of torture by the possibility of going to jail until the judge threw it out.

 

Above you questioned me as being ridiculous for even suggesting that someone might use a blank firing pistol for gun training in a public place but now you're suggesting that it was ridiculous that they were arrested for doing so.

 

At least take a consistent line. You either don't think it's anything people would do and so don't support anyone that stupid, or you do support it and they shouldn't have been arrested as using it in a public place was OK. It you can't play it both ways according to how the thread swings.

 

 

 

The only one twisting and wriggling here is you, you said a PUBLIC PARK, which you will note is the term I have consistently questioned throughout. Which part of a Private woodland let out with shooting rights, that Joe public sometimes wonders on is a PUBLIC Park?

 

For someone who is allegedly in the legal profession you have a very loose use of the English language which would have you pulled apart in any court.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Deker

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

so, do they walk down the high street letting go with a launcher/starting pistol.

 

Quite seriously where did I ever suggest that? Great word twist!

 

 

 

Read my post!

[Deker 3,478]

 

Come on Charlie.........

 

 

The circumstances of that are nowhere close to letting go with a starting pistol in a Public Park, and the Judge basically told everyone to ***** off, and stop wasting his time and public money!

 

 

 

Actually, the circumstances are pretty similar.

 

The two women were arrested, charged, prosecuted and found guilty of having an imitation firearm, a starting pistol, in a public place.

It was only on appeal that the case was quashed and the Appeal Court Judge made the comments you refer to.

 

Had one of the ladies not appealed the conviction, at great expense, both would still have a criminal conviction.

 

 

It was a private woodland that the public can access, my Garden is private but the public can access it if they try hard enough. It was not a Public Park?

 

That case was a complete joke, a waste of public funds and thrown out, as anyone can see who reads the article.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Deker

[danw 1,748]

I think what is being missed here is that the area the women where training on had its shooting rights leased so they could quite legally have been carrying real firearms and shooting

[Alsone 789]

 

The only one twisting and wriggling here is you, you said a PUBLIC PARK, which you will note is the term I have consistently questioned throughout. Which part of a Private woodland let out with shooting rights, that Joe public sometimes wonders on is a PUBLIC Park?

 

For someone who is allegedly in the legal profession you have a very loose use of the English language which would have you pulled apart in any court.

 

 

Look above you'll find I said public park or private land with a public footpath nearby, multiple times.

 

No where did I suggest someone should walk down a public street discharging a blank firing weapon in the road.

 

Anyway, not going to keep arguing. We have a differing point of view, which is fine. I'm just more cautious than you when it comes to taking risks or standing on rights.

 

My POV all along is where there's an alternative means of exposing the dog to a gun noise, it's better to consider it these days than standing there with a blank firing gun, whether you are in a public park OR on private land near a public right of way. The public know real handguns are illegal and most won't hesitate to report you whether they know its real or not, simply because most disapprove of shooting.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Alsone

[Alsone 789]

I think what is being missed here is that the area the women where training on had its shooting rights leased so they could quite legally have been carrying real firearms and shooting

 

That's certainly a very valid point and shows how ridiculous the situation was of the arrest in the 1st place given that they had every right to be discharging guns there. However, it appears it was a public place in so far as the police were concerned as the public had a right of access, and so reasonable excuse came into play.

 

I agree it should never have made Court or even an arrest but it just reinforces how careful you have to be these days when it comes to doing anything in view of the public.

[SportingShooter 0]

I think the descent into the minutiae has reached it's peak...

 

Never did learn what a horizontal blank firer was.

[danw 1,748]

 

 

 

 

The only one twisting and wriggling here is you, you said a PUBLIC PARK, which you will note is the term I have consistently questioned throughout. Which part of a Private woodland let out with shooting rights, that Joe public sometimes wonders on is a PUBLIC Park?

 

For someone who is allegedly in the legal profession you have a very loose use of the English language which would have you pulled apart in any court.

 

Look above you'll find I said public park or private land with a public footpath nearby, multiple times.

 

No where did I suggest someone should walk down a public street discharging a blank firing weapon in the road.

 

Anyway, not going to keep arguing. We have a differing point of view, which is fine. I'm just more cautious than you when it comes to taking risks or standing on rights.

 

My POV all along is where there's an alternative means of exposing the dog to a gun noise, it's better to consider it these days than standing there with a blank firing gun, whether you are in a public park OR on private land near a public right of way. The public know real handguns are illegal and most won't hesitate to report you whether they know its real or not, simply because most disapprove of shooting.

Whilst I concede my point since a case was found as requested I still maintain that a launcher will not do the same job as a pistol and though I understand your sentiments I unfortunately am from the school of what I do is legal and will defend that right I will not bow down nor hide the fact even if public opinion is against me I will maintain that great British tradition of having a back bone so in this respect we will have to differ you make your allowance and hide from sight I will not.

 

Finally ever the pedant the general public have been lead to believe handguns are illegal this is untrue born out by the fact I and many others still have them in my case a glock 17 and a Walther p22

[Born Hunter 17,784]

 

I unfortunately am from the school of what I do is legal and will defend that right I will not bow down nor hide the fact even if public opinion is against me I will maintain that great British tradition of having a back bone so in this respect we will have to differ you make your allowance and hide from sight I will not.

 

 

Hear, hear!!!

 

The biggest problem I see with the British shooting community is our almost suicidal acceptance of the oppressive gun laws we have! So long as we continue to errr on the side of caution, the wedge will only ever go in one direction...

Edited January 22, 2015 by Born Hunter

[Alsone 789]

Whilst I concede my point since a case was found as requested I still maintain that a launcher will not do the same job as a pistol and though I understand your sentiments I unfortunately am from the school of what I do is legal and will defend that right I will not bow down nor hide the fact even if public opinion is against me I will maintain that great British tradition of having a back bone so in this respect we will have to differ you make your allowance and hide from sight I will not.

 

Finally ever the pedant the general public have been lead to believe handguns are illegal this is untrue born out by the fact I and many others still have them in my case a glock 17 and a Walther p22

 

 

 

Dan I have no experience of launchers so wouldn't know if they were a direct replacement, it was just one possible suggested alternative when near the public and something I have seen people using for dog training albeit it could have been being used for differing purposes than the noise.

 

I also agree entirely that it's good to stand up for our rights as a community, although I think sometimes campaigns and education of the police by Shooting Groups is a better way to go than standing on your rights in a way that may get you arrested however innocent you may be later found. I take it you have the pistols for humane dispatch?

 

Here, here!!!

 

The biggest problem I see with the British shooting community is our almost suicidal acceptance of the oppressive gun laws we have! So long as we continue to errr on the side of caution, the wedge will only ever go in one direction...

 

 

I couldn't agree more but to an extent this is where I feel the Shooting Organisations have failed us. eg. Licence Infringements can land you in prison with the same sentence potentially as a criminal in possession of a handgun illegally. How can that be right? A licence infringement shouldn't result in any criminal record or even a prosecution in my opinion. There's no need. Why criminalise an otherwise law abiding citizen for a simple mistake such as a one off lapse of security or a failure to renew or notify a transfer in good time? The ultimate sanction is the loss of the certificate and for minor security infringements. late renewals etc, an informal warning suffices. For repeated offences, then either a small civil penalty eg £50 (- a non criminal penalty like a parking fine) or the withdrawal of the certificate is all that's needed. Most certificate holders fear the loss of their certificate far more than anything else.

 

If the police want a good relationship with shooters, then a far better way of achieving that is to engender an atmosphere of fairness and understanding where minor infringements are handled via warnings etc. rather than a heavy handed approach of imprisoning people for a minor mistake such as lapse of memory in forgetting to put some ammo back in the cabinet or forgetting to renew in good time when it's a one off.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Alsone

[wilbur foxhound 480]

A dummy launcher is way louder than a starting pistol,however i wouldn't dream of firing any of the two in a public place,dogs will be trained much better in a quiet place out of the public,s way,wf

[danw 1,748]

Yes Alsone my pistols are for HD with the pigs/sheep and cattle on the estate it totals approx 4000 head of livestock used to do RTC as well but it's a pain in the arse, forever been messed about by the police and their madness