German Wirehaired Pointer

[Mickey Finn 3,011]

Fill me in finn I'd love to know what your method of force fetch is.

I'll try to put something up a little later or tomorrow but typically this is done around 12 months or so.

 

not sure if ive missed it but how old is she ?

 

ah found it 15/16 months ! back off and chill a while ,she is probably still WAY to young !one thing is they are no labs to train ! like has been said previously they are slow to mature and need to want to do it themselves first !

We usually put a fair amount of pressure on them to get them where they need to be. These are dogs that are bred for pressure and that doesn't mean excessive force. Just an organized approach that garners predicable results.

[pjmc 90]

not sure if ive missed it but how old is she ?

 

ah found it 15/16 months ! back off and chill a while ,she is probably still WAY to young !one thing is they are no labs to train ! like has been said previously they are slow to mature and need to want to do it themselves first !

 

That's true from what I've read and from what people have advised me they take a long time to grow up but the bit that's getting me is that she can do it and has done it in the past for me but it just seems to be goin the opposite way these days

[pjmc 90]

 

Fill me in finn I'd love to know what your method of force fetch is.well that sounds good fair play to yous dt yous can put your finger on it.but I just know dt if 2 much force came into it,il not say pressure cause I know she's fit for that she lives for it.but force just wouldn't suit her at al at al

 

I'll try to put something up a little later or tomorrow but typically this is done around 12 months or so.

 

not sure if ive missed it but how old is she ?

 

ah found it 15/16 months ! back off and chill a while ,she is probably still WAY to young !one thing is they are no labs to train ! like has been said previously they are slow to mature and need to want to do it themselves first !

 

We usually put a fair amount of pressure on them to get them where they need to be. These are dogs that are bred for pressure and that doesn't mean excessive force. Just an organized approach that garners predicable results.

[Mickey Finn 3,011]

Here is the training table you'll need. Mine isn't this nice, and yours doesn't have to be. But the dimensions are in the link below and I'd suggest making it as light as you can because you'll want to move it to different locations as your training progresses.

 

 

http://www.navhda.org/sites/www.navhda.org/files/assets/table.pdf

 

This guy has put it down pretty well and you can just follow his program and get where you want to go. The biggest thing with this is your timing. That and keeping the sessions short and ending each one on a happy note. Along with that thought I'd suggest teaching WHOA at the same time. It works out well and you can use the dog standing still to end on a happy note if everything else goes to pot. Like all good training programs it is progressive and everything is done in steps. That way you can go back to the last step and start over if something goes wrong. Wirehairs are smart dogs which can handle a lot of pressure. But if your dog has been sort of coasting for a while I'd suggest doing some other training first and get the dogs head in the game then introduce FF. These tables are great and you should use it for grooming, checking the dog over for injuries after a run, and happying it up in general so that the dog sees it as a happy place. Even my lurcher runs and jumps on the table if I'm heading in that direction.

http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/Force%20Fetch%20Outline-Dobbs.pdf

A few notes. You don't have to use an e-collar. I don't for FF as my timing is not quite good enough. Bad timing can set you back. Wirehairs are smart dogs so don't waste time when you see the dog has got the idea. Move on to the next step and remember to keep the sessions short. Also, keep play time and training time separate. When the training is done and you are at a happy spot put the dog up for awhile and let it digest what it has just done. Keep it away from game while it is training and only let it hold it's training tools. One last thought, most people I know say hold from the beginning. In the link he suggest that you don't. But I know of others who just say fetch and get along fine.

 

He's even got the thoughts and advice posted here.

http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/FORCE%20FETCH%20NOTES.pdf

 

I hope this is useful to you and you not only enjoy it but are rewarded with the hell or high water retriever you deserve.

 

 

[pjmc 90]

Here is the training table you'll need. Mine isn't this nice, and yours doesn't have to be. But the dimensions are in the link below and I'd suggest making it as light as you can because you'll want to move it to different locations as your training progresses.

 

 

http://www.navhda.org/sites/www.navhda.org/files/assets/table.pdf

 

This guy has put it down pretty well and you can just follow his program and get where you want to go. The biggest thing with this is your timing. That and keeping the sessions short and ending each one on a happy note. Along with that thought I'd suggest teaching WHOA at the same time. It works out well and you can use the dog standing still to end on a happy note if everything else goes to pot. Like all good training programs it is progressive and everything is done in steps. That way you can go back to the last step and start over if something goes wrong. Wirehairs are smart dogs which can handle a lot of pressure. But if your dog has been sort of coasting for a while I'd suggest doing some other training first and get the dogs head in the game then introduce FF. These tables are great and you should use it for grooming, checking the dog over for injuries after a run, and happying it up in general so that the dog sees it as a happy place. Even my lurcher runs and jumps on the table if I'm heading in that direction.

http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/Force%20Fetch%20Outline-Dobbs.pdf

A few notes. You don't have to use an e-collar. I don't for FF as my timing is not quite good enough. Bad timing can set you back. Wirehairs are smart dogs so don't waste time when you see the dog has got the idea. Move on to the next step and remember to keep the sessions short. Also, keep play time and training time separate. When the training is done and you are at a happy spot put the dog up for awhile and let it digest what it has just done. Keep it away from game while it is training and only let it hold it's training tools. One last thought, most people I know say hold from the beginning. In the link he suggest that you don't. But I know of others who just say fetch and get along fine.

 

He's even got the thoughts and advice posted here.

http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/FORCE%20FETCH%20NOTES.pdf

 

I hope this is useful to you and you not only enjoy it but are rewarded with the hell or high water retriever you deserve.

 

morning finn iv just woke up to your reply a couple of hrs ago.thanks very much for your help I just got a quick look at your reply but I will sit down tonight after work and go true it.i honestly thought in your first reply you were more or less telling me to give up on her and that was 1 thing I wasn't going to do.it all sounds good from u I take it you have trained 1 or 2 of them in your time?

[devon flighter 421]

 

not sure if ive missed it but how old is she ?

 

ah found it 15/16 months ! back off and chill a while ,she is probably still WAY to young !one thing is they are no labs to train ! like has been said previously they are slow to mature and need to want to do it themselves first !

That's true from what I've read and from what people have advised me they take a long time to grow up but the bit that's getting me is that she can do it and has done it in the past for me but it just seems to be goin the opposite way these days

 

hiya you are experiencing EXACTLY WHAT ive had my self and others ! one day you go out and everything is absolutely fine and the next almost back to stage 1 "dont worry its normal !!!" like i said its more about training YOU to understand their ways and not the other way around , IT WILL ALL COME RIGHT IN THE END CHILL, and give her time ,i know its frustrating ,like i said they are not labs or springers ,one thing though is once you get there its going to be a life changing bond you get with her HONESTLY YOU WILL BE FINE

[Mickey Finn 3,011]

 

Here is the training table you'll need. Mine isn't this nice, and yours doesn't have to be. But the dimensions are in the link below and I'd suggest making it as light as you can because you'll want to move it to different locations as your training progresses.

 

 

http://www.navhda.org/sites/www.navhda.org/files/assets/table.pdf

 

This guy has put it down pretty well and you can just follow his program and get where you want to go. The biggest thing with this is your timing. That and keeping the sessions short and ending each one on a happy note. Along with that thought I'd suggest teaching WHOA at the same time. It works out well and you can use the dog standing still to end on a happy note if everything else goes to pot. Like all good training programs it is progressive and everything is done in steps. That way you can go back to the last step and start over if something goes wrong. Wirehairs are smart dogs which can handle a lot of pressure. But if your dog has been sort of coasting for a while I'd suggest doing some other training first and get the dogs head in the game then introduce FF. These tables are great and you should use it for grooming, checking the dog over for injuries after a run, and happying it up in general so that the dog sees it as a happy place. Even my lurcher runs and jumps on the table if I'm heading in that direction.

http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/Force%20Fetch%20Outline-Dobbs.pdf

A few notes. You don't have to use an e-collar. I don't for FF as my timing is not quite good enough. Bad timing can set you back. Wirehairs are smart dogs so don't waste time when you see the dog has got the idea. Move on to the next step and remember to keep the sessions short. Also, keep play time and training time separate. When the training is done and you are at a happy spot put the dog up for awhile and let it digest what it has just done. Keep it away from game while it is training and only let it hold it's training tools. One last thought, most people I know say hold from the beginning. In the link he suggest that you don't. But I know of others who just say fetch and get along fine.

 

He's even got the thoughts and advice posted here.

http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/FORCE%20FETCH%20NOTES.pdf

 

I hope this is useful to you and you not only enjoy it but are rewarded with the hell or high water retriever you deserve.

morning finn iv just woke up to your reply a couple of hrs ago.thanks very much for your help I just got a quick look at your reply but I will sit down tonight after work and go true it.i honestly thought in your first reply you were more or less telling me to give up on her and that was 1 thing I wasn't going to do.it all sounds good from u I take it you have trained 1 or 2 of them in your time?

 

Hi PMJC, sorry it took so long to get back to you. No, I wouldn't suggest giving up on her. If I understand your posts she's your dog and your pretty happy with her.

 

I keep reading on here that wirehairs take a long time to mature. I'm not sure what they are talking about when they say this. We put a lot of pressure on them in an organized and progressive program. It's designed to utilize the breeding of the dog and to awaken it's potential.

 

One thing I would suggest is picking one program and following it. If your not up to force fetching your dog and are not interested in taking her to a professional trainer then you'll have to come up with something else. In the meantime, I'd not put her on game at all. When you shot the duck you taught her that she didn't have to retrieve for you, and that when she refused you played with her. In this dogs mind either she is working for you, or you are working for her. There is no partnership the way people think of it.

 

Don't use shot game for training they should always be handled with respect. Remember these are smart dogs and they are watching you. Use dead game you take out of the cooler for your retrieving work. When the dog is catching on use fresh killed game. When she is handling this then she is ready for shot game.

 

Getting back to Force Fetch, the best reason to force fetch is to ensure a solid retriever. Beyond that we use it as the platform for blood tracking large game. We do this by introducing game drags off of the bench and sending the dog to retrieve. She'll follow the sent to the game and retrieve it. Once she has this we introduce blood as opposed to a drag. She knows to follow the scent to the game and to retrieve it to you. When she finds a piece of deer hide she'll mouth it and maybe give it a shake because it's new and your home free.

 

How is her pointing coming along by the way?

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mickey Finn

[jessdale 416]

"They take a long time to mature" can also be pronounced "I can't train the dog".

[pjmc 90]

 

 

Here is the training table you'll need. Mine isn't this nice, and yours doesn't have to be. But the dimensions are in the link below and I'd suggest making it as light as you can because you'll want to move it to different locations as your training progresses.

http://www.navhda.org/sites/www.navhda.org/files/assets/table.pdf

 

This guy has put it down pretty well and you can just follow his program and get where you want to go. The biggest thing with this is your timing. That and keeping the sessions short and ending each one on a happy note. Along with that thought I'd suggest teaching WHOA at the same time. It works out well and you can use the dog standing still to end on a happy note if everything else goes to pot. Like all good training programs it is progressive and everything is done in steps. That way you can go back to the last step and start over if something goes wrong. Wirehairs are smart dogs which can handle a lot of pressure. But if your dog has been sort of coasting for a while I'd suggest doing some other training first and get the dogs head in the game then introduce FF. These tables are great and you should use it for grooming, checking the dog over for injuries after a run, and happying it up in general so that the dog sees it as a happy place. Even my lurcher runs and jumps on the table if I'm heading in that direction.http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/Force%20Fetch%20Outline-Dobbs.pdf

A few notes. You don't have to use an e-collar. I don't for FF as my timing is not quite good enough. Bad timing can set you back. Wirehairs are smart dogs so don't waste time when you see the dog has got the idea. Move on to the next step and remember to keep the sessions short. Also, keep play time and training time separate. When the training is done and you are at a happy spot put the dog up for awhile and let it digest what it has just done. Keep it away from game while it is training and only let it hold it's training tools. One last thought, most people I know say hold from the beginning. In the link he suggest that you don't. But I know of others who just say fetch and get along fine.

 

He's even got the thoughts and advice posted here.http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/FORCE%20FETCH%20NOTES.pdf

 

I hope this is useful to you and you not only enjoy it but are rewarded with the hell or high water retriever you deserve.

 

morning finn iv just woke up to your reply a couple of hrs ago.thanks very much for your help I just got a quick look at your reply but I will sit down tonight after work and go true it.i honestly thought in your first reply you were more or less telling me to give up on her and that was 1 thing I wasn't going to do.it all sounds good from u I take it you have trained 1 or 2 of them in your time?

Hi PMJC, sorry it took so long to get back to you. No, I wouldn't suggest giving up on her. If I understand your posts she's your dog and your pretty happy with her.

 

I keep reading on here that wirehairs take a long time to mature. I'm not sure what they are talking about when they say this. We put a lot of pressure on them in an organized and progressive program. It's designed to utilize the breeding of the dog and to awaken it's potential.

 

One thing I would suggest is picking one program and following it. If your not up to force fetching your dog and are not interested in taking her to a professional trainer then you'll have to come up with something else. In the meantime, I'd not put her on game at all. When you shot the duck you taught her that she didn't have to retrieve for you, and that when she refused you played with her. In this dogs mind either she is working for you, or you are working for her. There is no partnership the way people think of it.

 

Don't use shot game for training they should always be handled with respect. Remember these are smart dogs and they are watching you. Use dead game you take out of the cooler for your retrieving work. When the dog is catching on use fresh killed game. When she is handling this then she is ready for shot game.

 

Getting back to Force Fetch, the best reason to force fetch is to ensure a solid retriever. Beyond that we use it as the platform for blood tracking large game. We do this by introducing game drags off of the bench and sending the dog to retrieve. She'll follow the sent to the game and retrieve it. Once she has this we introduce blood as opposed to a drag. She knows to follow the scent to the game and to retrieve it to you. When she finds a piece of deer hide she'll mouth it and maybe give it a shake because it's new and your home free.

 

How is her pointing coming along by the way?

I ment to ask you what the WHOA was that you surgested training her on as well?I need to slow down and get it right or il end up with a dog not doing its job,your so right what your saying about retrieving the duck,I was the clown goin to get it and her looking at me waiting on me to throw it for her for a bit of fun.

Iv read down true that force fetching program and watched a few videos on YouTube and it looks the business,I think it's my way to go with her,alot of the 1st stuff in the start of the programe she will fly true because she's doing it already,I think it's just bringing her on that extra bit and given her the right experience of what she needs to do is what the force fetching will do.

Her pointing started slow she was flushing her game very quickly every time,but now she is well slowed down and standing over her game alot longer . pheasants around me are fairly scarce and that doesn't help my case but this last 2 months roughly she has been comeing across plenty of snipe in wet meadows and she's just a joy to watch goin around the field pointing them.

[Mickey Finn 3,011]

 

 

 

Here is the training table you'll need. Mine isn't this nice, and yours doesn't have to be. But the dimensions are in the link below and I'd suggest making it as light as you can because you'll want to move it to different locations as your training progresses.

http://www.navhda.org/sites/www.navhda.org/files/assets/table.pdf

 

This guy has put it down pretty well and you can just follow his program and get where you want to go. The biggest thing with this is your timing. That and keeping the sessions short and ending each one on a happy note. Along with that thought I'd suggest teaching WHOA at the same time. It works out well and you can use the dog standing still to end on a happy note if everything else goes to pot. Like all good training programs it is progressive and everything is done in steps. That way you can go back to the last step and start over if something goes wrong. Wirehairs are smart dogs which can handle a lot of pressure. But if your dog has been sort of coasting for a while I'd suggest doing some other training first and get the dogs head in the game then introduce FF. These tables are great and you should use it for grooming, checking the dog over for injuries after a run, and happying it up in general so that the dog sees it as a happy place. Even my lurcher runs and jumps on the table if I'm heading in that direction.http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/Force%20Fetch%20Outline-Dobbs.pdf

A few notes. You don't have to use an e-collar. I don't for FF as my timing is not quite good enough. Bad timing can set you back. Wirehairs are smart dogs so don't waste time when you see the dog has got the idea. Move on to the next step and remember to keep the sessions short. Also, keep play time and training time separate. When the training is done and you are at a happy spot put the dog up for awhile and let it digest what it has just done. Keep it away from game while it is training and only let it hold it's training tools. One last thought, most people I know say hold from the beginning. In the link he suggest that you don't. But I know of others who just say fetch and get along fine.

 

He's even got the thoughts and advice posted here.http://www.vomhoko.com/Training%20Docs/Advanced%20Training/FORCE%20FETCH%20NOTES.pdf

 

I hope this is useful to you and you not only enjoy it but are rewarded with the hell or high water retriever you deserve.

morning finn iv just woke up to your reply a couple of hrs ago.thanks very much for your help I just got a quick look at your reply but I will sit down tonight after work and go true it.i honestly thought in your first reply you were more or less telling me to give up on her and that was 1 thing I wasn't going to do.it all sounds good from u I take it you have trained 1 or 2 of them in your time?

Hi PMJC, sorry it took so long to get back to you. No, I wouldn't suggest giving up on her. If I understand your posts she's your dog and your pretty happy with her.

 

I keep reading on here that wirehairs take a long time to mature. I'm not sure what they are talking about when they say this. We put a lot of pressure on them in an organized and progressive program. It's designed to utilize the breeding of the dog and to awaken it's potential.

 

One thing I would suggest is picking one program and following it. If your not up to force fetching your dog and are not interested in taking her to a professional trainer then you'll have to come up with something else. In the meantime, I'd not put her on game at all. When you shot the duck you taught her that she didn't have to retrieve for you, and that when she refused you played with her. In this dogs mind either she is working for you, or you are working for her. There is no partnership the way people think of it.

 

Don't use shot game for training they should always be handled with respect. Remember these are smart dogs and they are watching you. Use dead game you take out of the cooler for your retrieving work. When the dog is catching on use fresh killed game. When she is handling this then she is ready for shot game.

 

Getting back to Force Fetch, the best reason to force fetch is to ensure a solid retriever. Beyond that we use it as the platform for blood tracking large game. We do this by introducing game drags off of the bench and sending the dog to retrieve. She'll follow the sent to the game and retrieve it. Once she has this we introduce blood as opposed to a drag. She knows to follow the scent to the game and to retrieve it to you. When she finds a piece of deer hide she'll mouth it and maybe give it a shake because it's new and your home free.

 

How is her pointing coming along by the way?

I ment to ask you what the WHOA was that you surgested training her on as well?I need to slow down and get it right or il end up with a dog not doing its job,your so right what your saying about retrieving the duck,I was the clown goin to get it and her looking at me waiting on me to throw it for her for a bit of fun.

Iv read down true that force fetching program and watched a few videos on YouTube and it looks the business,I think it's my way to go with her,alot of the 1st stuff in the start of the programe she will fly true because she's doing it already,I think it's just bringing her on that extra bit and given her the right experience of what she needs to do is what the force fetching will do.

Her pointing started slow she was flushing her game very quickly every time,but now she is well slowed down and standing over her game alot longer . pheasants around me are fairly scarce and that doesn't help my case but this last 2 months roughly she has been comeing across plenty of snipe in wet meadows and she's just a joy to watch goin around the field pointing them.

 

If her pointing is coming along your well on your way.

 

Whoa might be an American term. It means the dog stands stock still until you release her. For us hunters we use it when we move into flush a bird she is pointing. It's also useful for every day things or when you want to stop her in her tracks. Later the down whistle comes and that means she's to drop right there. This can save your dog and I wouldn't skip it. But teaching whoa while doing force fetch really gives you an easy out if things don't go well. You may not whoa her on birds til it's all coming together. You don't want to take any of the intensity out of her point. There is nothing worse than a dog that just stops and stands there when it smells a bird.

 

You guys are lucky in a lot of ways I must say. Snipe like pheasants are kind of rare around here these days. We have roughed grouse farther north, and we get excellent flights of wood cock, also ducks and Canada Geese.

 

ATB

[Mickey Finn 3,011]

http://navhdastore.org/thetrainingandcareoftheversatilehuntingdog.aspx

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-training-care-versatile-hunting/dp/0966565614

pjmc, you might want to take a look at this book. It's older, but goes step by step to help you develop a quality versatile gun dog.

 

ATB

[MIK 4,756]

Mine is 18 months old now and is turning into a decent animal ....I have never been so frustrated with a dog but I know its already been said but they really do need to be left as pups and I found when training it was little and often but very quick to pick things up and easy to train but it has to be when they are ready and all the training I done really has paid off and its all clicking together .....had him out beating last week which I was worried about but it was a big shoot with over 20000 birds down and the drives are big so plenty of scope if a dog ranges out a bit but he never put a foot wrong and was solid as a rock so that was a big relief .....had him out the other night with the weeman shooting over him and it was good to see a dog come onto his game with some steady points and very steady when flushing ....really looking forward to a lot of years of fun with this dog onwards and up wards for young Rab

 

[MIK 4,756]

Very well made animal with some bone on him and lots of drive ....still quite puppyish but he knows what his purpose is now

[MIK 4,756]

From this

to this

 

[unlacedgecko 1,466]

Beautiful dog mate. They certainly are a breed I would like to work one day...