17 Winchester Super Magnum (17Wsm)

[Born Hunter 17,813]

I'm sure they could engineer a way past that.

 

A super magnum 22 rimmy in an SLR platform would attract attention in this country imo. Though I suspect the Home Office would torpedo it.

[Matthew Phillips 36]

Wonder what muzzle energy a 22 winchester super magnum would produce. Would kind of make my 22wmr obsolete

[Alsone 789]

I'm sure they could engineer a way past that.

 

A super magnum 22 rimmy in an SLR platform would attract attention in this country imo. Though I suspect the Home Office would torpedo it.

 

Illegal in any event.

 

Only semi-auto that's legal in the UK is .22LR - specifcally re-stated in the Firearms Guidelines.

[Born Hunter 17,813]

Alsone, where?

 

Unless recently amended, it states 22 rf, not 22lr.

 

If I'm wrong then there are half a dozen prohibited 22 magnum SLRs on gun trader! LOL

 

Hence why it would be an interesting caliber.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Born Hunter

[Alsone 789]

Sorry my mistake, that should be RF.

 

In that case, yep, WSM could be really interesting.

 

I still think you're probably unlikely to see a .22 WSM because of the pressures involved.

 

I believe for .17 WSM it is 33,000 psi. A heavier bullet with the same powder would potentially send that skyward.

[danw 1,748]

Born have a look at Southern gun company lever release .223,nige had one in 9mm they are almost as fast as a semi once you get the knack

[Born Hunter 17,813]

Yeah I remember you showing me that before. It's sometimes quite surprising what our laws allow! But you know that.

 

22 WSM, I reckon it'd throw a 30-40gr Ballistic tip at around 2'500 ft/s with 450-500 ft.lbs energy. In a nice compact SLR platform it'd be a hell of a truck rifle for a keeper. But I think too much!

 

I wish I could Wildcat and build guns! LOL. Alsone must be right otherwise somebody would've done it....

[Matthew Phillips 36]

My 22wmr puts out a 30gr at 2200fps, i should imagine that 22wsm could do the same with a 40gr.

[charlie caller 3,654]

I dont see why pressure would be an issue, as it would take less powder to throw a .22 projectile than a .17 from the same case, however when the .22wmr is available in semi auto, and Hornady make the brilliant 30 grain vmax, why bother? If you need more grunt get a .22 hornet and reload.

[Born Hunter 17,813]

CC, my only thought on it was that a hypothetical 22WSM or similar would offer something not available now... a super magnum SLR.

 

Maybe it wouldn't offer much more than a regular 22 magnum? The thought of it certainly interests me a lot more than a 17WSM.

 

At a rough guess you'd end up with an SLR that has a similar (probably better) trajectory to a HMR with double the energy! That just screams general purpose vermin rifle, a truck or bike gun. The cartridge itself would be nothing interesting, it's the applications under UK law.

 

Just me playing with ideas... But I'd say it would only really have a niche in the UK market due to our legislation on SLRs. The yanks would probably just buy an AR! LOL

[Alsone 789]

I dont see why pressure would be an issue, as it would take less powder to throw a .22 projectile than a .17 from the same case, however when the .22wmr is available in semi auto, and Hornady make the brilliant 30 grain vmax, why bother? If you need more grunt get a .22 hornet and reload.

 

Surely it would take more Charlie. The inertia of a 35-40gr bullet is far more than for a 17-25gr bullet.

 

Whilst it remains stationary the pressures are building up behind it before they finally push it out of the cartridge and up the barrel. Therefore it's likely that a heavier bullet will result in much higher case pressures.

 

I speak off the top here as I'm not a ballistic or home loading expert, but it would be interesting if someone who is an expert has some input on bullet weight vs pressure with the same powder load. I guess that would take an industry person as most people aren't able to measure case pressures.

 

I do know that the .17WSM is supposed to be at the upper end of what a rimfire case can take and some cracked cases have been reported after firing. HMR pressure tops out at 26,000psi and we all know the issues that have been had there. .17WSM is in a beefed up case and tops out at 33,000psi.

 

There's a whole article on it here, that also mentions the issue of rim thickness for rim-fire cartridges:

 

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/29/winchester-ammunition-and-savage-arms-have-brought-to-market-the-17-winchester-super-magnum-wsm/

 

It does say they are looking at other calibres, specifically 20 calibre amongst others, but can't deliver the velocity downrange which to me appears to suggest that they're having to reduce the powder load. However, read it for yourselves and see what you think.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well lets look at it this way, to propel a 100grain bullet from a .243 for instance takes (at max charge and obviously depending on powder used) about 39-40 grains of powder, to do the same with a 58 grain bullet takes roughly 45-47 grains of powder, based on using H414 powder, also think in these terms, take two identical air rifles one in .177 and one in .22. both producing the legal limit of 12ftlbs, now swap the barrels over, the .22 will now in all probability be over the legal limit, the .177 well below, this is because it takes more air/spring power to drive the smaller calibre to the same energy level as the larger .22, if fitting a gas ram into an air rifle, the manufacturers state "a .177 gas ram must not be fitted into a .22 rifle as it will take the rifle over the legal limit" yes they would have to reduce the powder load for a .20 or .22 bullet, as using the same charge for a .17 bullet would result in over pressure loads, hence the lower downrange velocity.

Edited November 19, 2014 by charlie caller

[danw 1,748]

Yeah I remember you showing me that before. It's sometimes quite surprising what our laws allow! But you know that.

 

Lol

[Deker 3,478]

I dont see why pressure would be an issue, as it would take less powder to throw a .22 projectile than a .17 from the same case, however when the .22wmr is available in semi auto, and Hornady make the brilliant 30 grain vmax, why bother? If you need more grunt get a .22 hornet and reload.

 

Whilst I would love to have a try of the WSM, I have to say on the face of it, and simply from what I have read....I totally agree with all of that!

Edited November 19, 2014 by Deker

[Deker 3,478]

Alsone

 

As cc has said I don't see any case pressure problems with a .22, the case is apparently showing some stress issues in .17 I understand though.

 

I have seen no specific scientific info on this, just hearsay, and the simple fact is, the way it's going I doubt it will hit our shores anyway, it's already about 18 months past the originally suggested UK arrival time!

 

It may just die a death, who is actually chambering it currently?

Edited November 19, 2014 by Deker