An Interesting Chat With My Vet About Vaccinations .......

[socks 32,253]

I was chatting with my vet on Friday and asked him about jabbing my puppy for me as soon as possible so that I can get her out and about with me ... She is seven weeks old this week and he had no problem with jabbing her and asked me out of curiosity why I wanted her done so early ... When I explained so that she could come out and about in the truck and on short walks when I am checking snares and traps he advised that I wait ... His reasoning was that the pup will have plenty of anti bodies passed down from the mother and although the drug companies claim the vaccines are safe to use from 6 weeks of age they won't do any good as they still have the bitches anti bodies up until around 10 weeks .... I then asked about the lepto jab and this should be given even later and he whent into a whole complicated reason that lost me a bit ... But the gist of it was giving the pup time to grow enough defences to accept the lepto anti bodies ... In the end we concluded that the best time to jab the pup to get the best out of the vaccines was at 13 and 15 weeks ... Obviously this may not be suitable for people who live in a high parvo area or for walking your dogs around the streets ... It suites me as the only free running the pup will get is around the woods and fields where hardly anybody goes .......

[Mister Gain 1,764]

Thats interesting, I am getting a staff when it's 8 weeks on dec 4th. Pretty sure we got the last one done not that long after we got him, but that was over 25 years ago so I could be mistaken. Think I'll have a visit to the local vet this week for a chat and a bit of clarification and advice.

[neil cooney 10,416]

I presume Socks you wouldn't be putting such info up here if it wasn't a vet you have faith in.

I was told the same by a vet nearly 30 years ago and have stuck to that advice ever since.

BUT, since then I've heard just about every other bit of advice out there regarding inoculations, from either vets or chemists selling the injections.

What you've been told sounds like good common sense to me and has stood to me for many years.

[socks 32,253]

My vet is top notch and wouldn't fill me with crap as he knows I know a little bit about dogs ... He is no money grabber even to the extent that when I had a tumour removed from one of my Jill's when I picked her up his words were well,that's it we don't need her back as I am sure you will take the stitches out ... And he never sends out letters for boosters ......

[Raymond 618]

I presume Socks you wouldn't be putting such info up here if it wasn't a vet you have faith in.

I was told the same by a vet nearly 30 years ago and have stuck to that advice ever since.

BUT, since then I've heard just about every other bit of advice out there regarding inoculations, from either vets or chemists selling the injections.

What you've been told sounds like good common sense to me and has stood to me for many years.

I remember years ago you brought your pup to the vet for its first jab about 10 weeks old the next jab was about 2 weeks later and the last jab about 2 weeks after that.Then I came accross the cheaper way by getting the 5in 1,sometimes it was 7in 1 in the chemists. I was doing it this way for myself and other dog owners for years now and have never had any problems with both opptions. Both options in my experience have worked perfect. I had a bitch for 14 years and never gave a booster. Ive never given any dogs Ive owned boosters with no problems. Theres always been difference of opinions from vets and the person behind the chemist counter. In my experience my dogs have told me both options work so I listen to the dogs. Ive a dog out the back 8 years old and never had a booster. Ive a lurcher nearly 5 years old never had a booster. So whos right or wrong, the dogs or the vets.The 2 dogs have both had there over the chemist counter jabs at 6 weeks old.

[sandymere 8,263]

Maternal antibodies may have a continued presence in some puppies for up to 10 weeks which would nullify vaccination prior to this for those particular individuals although they can still get Parvo. The standard 10 and 12 week vaccinations would seem to overcome this in most cases whilst avoiding contact until the vacs have had time to create immunity at 14 weeks.

 

 

"The maternal antibody (MAb) titre to canine parvovirus (CPV) was determined on consecutive serums from 39 puppies in 7 litters. Vaccination with inactivated CPV was performed at a variety of ages and the response of the puppies determined. Transfer of MAb was demonstrated in 71% (5/7) of the litters and persisted for up to 10 weeks in some litters. MAb titres of greater than 20 precluded a vaccination response by puppies. Sixty- one per cent (8/13) of puppies responded to vaccination when the MAb titre was less than 20. However, no anamestic response occurred and in some cases a decrease in antibody titre was observed following a second vaccination. During an outbreak of canine parvovirus enteritis (CPE) in the kennel, 33 puppies developed clinical signs of enteritis. Of these puppies 85% (28) had MAb titres of less than at the onset of clinical signs. Fifty per cent (4/8) of the puppies which responded to vaccination developed CPE, whereas 100% (5/5) of those that did not respond to vaccination developed CPE. The results indicate that MAb may persist for up to 10 weeks and puppies with MAb in the titre range greater than 20 to less than do not respond to vaccination but are still susceptible to infection"

 

( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7168717 )

 

Immunity once started would seem to last for at least 3 years

 

“A challenge-of-immunity study was conducted to demonstrate immunity in dogs 3 years after their second vaccination with a new multivalent, modified-live vaccine containing canine adenovirus type 2 (CAV-2), canine parvovirus (CPV), and canine distemper virus (CDV). Twenty-three seronegative pups were vaccinated at 7 and 11 weeks of age. Eighteen seronegative pups, randomized into groups of six dogs, served as challenge controls. Dogs were kept in strict isolation for 3 years following the vaccination and then challenged sequentially with virulent canine adenovirus type 1 (CAV-1), CPV, and CDV. For each viral challenge, a separate group of six control dogs was also challenged. Clinical signs of CAV-1, CPV, and CDV infections were prevented in 100% of vaccinated dogs, demonstrating that the multivalent, modified-live test vaccine provided protection against virulent CAV-1, CPV, and CDV challenge in dogs 7 weeks of age or older for a minimum of 3 years following second vaccination.”

 

( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15906266 )

 

 

Good article here by a vet that has looked into this, from USA so ignore the rabies stuff lol.

 

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2014/08/routine-vaccinations-for-dogs-cats-trying-to-make-evidence-based-decisions/

[3175darren 1,100]

Bloody interesting read that

[Raymond 618]

Some good reading. I think the debate on dog vaccinations will go on for years. I remember as a kid the old lads at the time debating weather to jab the pups or not. Some boys didnt jab there pups and they lived long and happy lives. Ive experienced difference of oppinions from different vets. In the last at least 15 years id say or more I havent given any pups a course of needles. It has either been the 5in1 or 7in 1.Im getting a pup for my son in a couple of weeks and it will be jabbed with an 8in1 the breeder said.So for years now as soon as I got a pup be it 6 weeks or 8 weeks old they have been jabbed once, not a course of jabbs over the course of a few weeks. So if ive read the article correctly any pups Ive jabbed have not been protected. Does this mean they were very lucky to live for years and die of old age and that and proves the pups dont need to be jabbed.Ive 5 dogs out the back ranging from different ages all jabbed at 6 weeks are they proof that dogs dont need jabbs. Im not saying dogs dont need jabbs and I will do it the way ive been doing it successfully for the best part of 2 decades. The area I live in there would be more than 39 dogs that have been jabbed with over the chemist counter all in one shot and done at 6to 8 weeks and they are all well and healthy.There will be talks about jabbs for dogs for years to come.

[sandymere 8,263]

For many the bitches’ immunity may have passed by the time you treat so they would gain immunity from the vaccination but for some it may still be present so those wouldn't be protected. So early vacs are a gamble, as most people get the dogs vaccinated there is a reasonable heard immunity so less chance of coming into contact with the infection but still a gamble. It comes down to personal choice, I go for 10 and 12 weeks and in the past also got a booster at one year to catch any that didn't get cover with the first lot, then perhaps boost a 5 years or so. Having looked again I don't think I will bother with the one year shot just the initial ones then review after 5 years.

[Raymond 618]

For many the bitches’ immunity may have passed by the time you treat so they would gain immunity from the vaccination but for some it may still be present so those wouldn't be protected. So early vacs are a gamble, as most people get the dogs vaccinated there is a reasonable heard immunity so less chance of coming into contact with the infection but still a gamble. It comes down to personal choice, I go for 10 and 12 weeks and in the past also got a booster at one year to catch any that didn't get cover with the first lot, then perhaps boost a 5 years or so. Having looked again I don't think I will bother with the one year shot just the initial ones then review after 5 years.

For years before I came accross the vaccinations in the chemist, the local vet vaccinated the dogs. The vet always started with the first jabb at about 10 weeks and every 2 weeks after that untill the course was finished so Ive experienced both sides of the coin. Ive never experienced any dogs done either way suffer from anything they where innoculated against. I once and luckily enough only once in 30 odd years experienced parvo.It was in a litter of pups about 5 weeks old still with the bitch. The bitch was about 6 year old jabbed at 6 weeks and never a booster. Yeah the local vet milked my friend. All pups died. I supposed the vet made my friend pay for hope and he didnt feel useless as he tried to help the pups survive. He felt better that way instead of feeling useless. The vet sold him a few different products and tablets to try get the pups through it.