Bushing Herding Dogs

[Tozer 385]

Just something that I was wondering today watching a dog working sheep.

 

I know a good dog can learn to push things out towards you/the dogs. But does anyone who works collies/kelpies etc find it happens more with them?

[armdog 196]

Farm i use to help out on had a collie, mean as sin and i was warned she would try and bite me , true collie style in a sneek attack , while her acompliss a gordon setter barked like fury she would sneek round, first day i arrive the setters barking and running at me i suddenly sensed midge the collie there, i turned and kicked her square in the jaw, she stopped , looked puzzled and then followed me around everytime i was there, she checked traps, feeders , bushed , retrived shot game , ferreted , and generally acted like she was my dog, i was only 15 and i still remember this dog, she truly was an exceptional animal, the farmer used her to work sheep and pigs , but everything she did with me she just picked it up as she went along saw her tackle mink and rats and worked on shoot days like a spaniel, im a true collie convert and would only have collie blooded lurchers now, and if a collie came my way id definately find space to keep it !

[Tozer 385]

My first dog at the age of 3 was a collie, she did a lot of things without asking her. I took her fishing that many times she would sit and watch my float, letting out a yip when it went under, I don't think everyone else thought it was that funny

But without realising it looking back at nearly every picture of me as a child she is there, either a tail disappearing out of shot or the pair of us covering sh*t

 

I had another later on, but I was working/in education and he wasn't getting the time he needed and ended up mouthing/biting a brothers friend and we gave him to a friend of the family who ran him on fly ball. But a very trainable dog.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Tozer

[wuyang 513]

I rescued this bitch, had her first litter at 10 months of age. I got her when she was about 18 months. She was a natural hunting bitch from the first day I took her out with my other dogs. She had a particular style when she hunted. If there was a bush in between two fields she would try to push the rabbit out in the direction she wanted....sounds daft, but I'm sure that's what she was trying to do.sort of flushing it for herself to chase. Not all collies seem to have the same hunting drive from my limited experience though.

She would work any cover.

 

Edited November 6, 2014 by wuyang

[Tozer 385]

I'd definitely agree with that, there are very different collies out there. I guess this is what I was talking about.

 

It just dawned on me watching the dog bring in the sheep if it would be doing the same with game.

[dogs-n-natives 1,182]

i grew up hunting a red collie as our main gundog/bushing dog and family dog, he was great for marking, searching rough ground, retrieve, all fur and feather was worked. We did very well with that dog. In fact when I got my first springer he taught that spaniel a lot!

 

If I was hunting more boar, I would like to add a collie or kelpie to the team, as they make good find and bay dogs for rough game like boar. (they know how to stay alive lol)

[Bossie 90]

i grew up hunting a red collie as our main gundog/bushing dog and family dog, he was great for marking, searching rough ground, retrieve, all fur and feather was worked. We did very well with that dog. In fact when I got my first springer he taught that spaniel a lot!

 

If I was hunting more boar, I would like to add a collie or kelpie to the team, as they make good find and bay dogs for rough game like boar. (they know how to stay alive lol)

 

Think that would be a good idea, have thought about crosses or a pure pastoral blooded dog myself. A lot of pastoral breeds are used in the australians boar dogs. Don't see why on the continent this isn't the case. Different rules, and probably not very cool (with all the posh people in hunting) to take your malinois/kelpie/border/gsd/ds to a driven boar hunt LOL. I tink they have a lot to offer.

I I'd be able to have just one dog it be either one of the versatile HPR breeds or a pastoral breed, think you'd never go hungry.

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

The various pastoral breeds, still used for working and herding tasks,..usually offer something worthwhile to justify their inclusion within most types of hunting dog...

Edited November 14, 2014 by Phil Lloyd

[Tozer 385]

My dad has a 1/4 spaniel 3/4 collie it's daft as a brush and 10 years old now I use it ratting. It overshoots too muc bushing.

You just walk in the yard with her. Give her the command and wait for her to mark a location. She's the closest I have come to working a collie.

There is a reason there are so many collie lurchers I guess.

I am suprised there aren't more lab/hpr ones about but that is something different.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Tozer

[Bossie 90]

I think There are more reasons collie crosses are so popular. It has also got to do with availablity, cost, legislation, kennel blindness/patriotism. Not nocking the collie as a working dog at all, just think there are several mechanisms at work.

I´m pretty sure the HPRs are less popular beause they are non brittish, not known, often far more expensive and in many cases not as easy to train as a collie and more independent.

[leegreen 2,173]

Belgium Shepherd dog (Malinois).

Mine bushes very well with the Spaniels. Catches through being in the right place, super hearing, great brain.

[Mustelid 143]

The various pastoral breeds, still used for working and herding tasks,..usually offer something worthwhile to justify their inclusion within most types of hunting dog...

 

 

Old Moss passed away this Summer. The best dog I've known.

[Neal 1,869]

As mentioned above, kelpies, collies etc work in a variety of ways. Mine have the annoying habit of always doing what they think will work best in any given situation...though this doesn't always tally with what I'd necessarily ask them to do. Fortunately, they're invariably right which makes life a lot easier for me.

Getting back to the main point though, some will prefer to drive away from you whereas others will gather. It'll partly depend on the lines they come from and this will also effect their ability (or tendency) to balance. In general I'd say that the average well bred kelpie or collie from decent paddock lines would tend to go around the outside until reaching 12 o'clock before walking towards you and therefore, presumably, pushing the game in your direction. However, as rabbits, rats, squirrels etc aren't sheep or cattle this won't necessarily go according to plan. You'll also find that individuals will be more or less likely to walk in when they've sighted or scented their quarry depending on the amount of eye they possess.

[Tozer 385]

A practical explanation, I think we have all been there trying to convince the dogs that what we are trying to get them to do is for the best. When you are lifting a bit of bored for the dog to get a rat and she will only stand where you are lifting it, not where you know the rat is going to bolt!

 

I give in a lot of the time and just try to get them to see me as useful when I'm out.

[Neal 1,869]

I've learnt to pay attention to mine as I've lost count of the number of times they've been right.

 

There have been so many times that Scout has pointed up a tree and I've walked all the way around it and looked at it carefully only to think that she's finally lost her touch and started mismarking. After a bit of cajoling I've managed to call her away only to notice, seconds after we move off, a secret squirrel appear from nowhere and beat a hasty retreat to a taller tree.

 

Or another time when I was chatting to a friend in the local wood and Scout stood twenty yards away staring down a side track for over ten minutes, when I eventually finished my conversation and went over to her, there was a roe doe about ten yards away staring at her...it was almost as though they'd hypnotised each other.

 

Or the time (in the same wood) when I had to almost drag her away from a small patch of brambles where she stood frozen pointing at a gap on the edge. I walked round and round that bush but couldn't see a bloody thing. When I got far enough away and said, "That'll do," she shot straight back to the same spot. I spent another few minutes searching and suddenly saw it...a roe kid mere inches from her nose. It was like one of those magic eye pictures...once I'd spotted it I couldn't believe I'd missed it for so long.

 

Or the time...and the list goes on.