Pup Injury

[desertbred 5,490]

Homeopathic and Aliopathic medicine both have positive and negative points . The major point is that if something is used and proved to be beneficial then it should be used. Natural remedies have a far longer track record than some of the chemically engineered stuff so people make their own minds up but why go to the doctor to get a prescription and pay 8 pound something for a medicine you can go in Tesco and buy of the shelf for a pound. A person who observes and listens will in time learn how to care and treat a dog themselves without having to run to the vet every time it breaks wind.

[sandymere 8,263]

Homeopathic and Aliopathic medicine both have positive and negative points . The major point is that if something is used and proved to be beneficial then it should be used. Natural remedies have a far longer track record than some of the chemically engineered stuff so people make their own minds up but why go to the doctor to get a prescription and pay 8 pound something for a medicine you can go in Tesco and buy of the shelf for a pound. A person who observes and listens will in time learn how to care and treat a dog themselves without having to run to the vet every time it breaks wind.

The salient point is "proved to be beneficial" homeopathy has been proved to not be beneficial unless we are to re write physics and math.

 

 

“Research has shown that in controlled studies of arthritis treatments in dogs, for example, veterinarians reported improvement 40-45% of the time, and owners up to 57% of the time, even when the dogs were actually getting a placebo”

(Brennen McKenzie)

 

 

That is with animals that won’t be able to heal themselves due to having arthritis, a chronic dieses, so when a dog has a self healing problem, such as bruising, it would seem feasible that it would be even more likely to see improvement , after all it is happening naturally, and then credit the placebo ( homeopathy in this case) for the improvement.

 

Which leads to

 

“Because the false impression of a benefit from an ineffective therapy can truly harm our animal companions, who cannot speak for themselves or tell us directly when we have failed to relieve their symptoms, it is especially important to insist on reliable, controlled scientific evidence for the safety and efficacy of the therapies we use for our pets.”

 

 

(Brennen McKenzie)

http://web.randi.org/swift/alternative-medicine-and-placebo-effects-for-pets

 

 

Homeopathic and Aliopathic ???? there is only one medicine, its just called medicine, it is tested and shown to be effective, if it fails that test it is not medicine and calling it homeppathic does’t make it work or medicine., “How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. " (Abraham Lincoln)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus dog should go to vet or someone who can tell whats wrong!!

 

Funny Youtube of

Dara O'Briain with home truths about quackery

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8

Edited October 21, 2014 by sandymere

[sandymere 8,263]

Obviously the medical world is talking pish also then ... 2 second google search and a dosage instruction for the pills ... I am not going to get into a name calling argument with you nor am I going to lower myself to match your condescending tone ... Just because you work in the medical industry it doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about all medicines ... We all know you hate homeopathic medicines ( just look at your attacks on Sirius ) so,its pointless continuing this with you as I can't be arsed to google links back and fore all day ... You do what you think is best and offer your advise accordingly and I will do the same .........

 

http://www.medicinenet.com/arnica_arnica_montana-topical/article.htm

LOL If you don’t like the tone, don’t suggest suger pills type treatments to an injured pup, you didn’t even ask how much bruising or swelling for gods sake!!!!!

 

As to your link, its rubbish, a sales site….. try this one instead it’s the NHS

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/homeopathy/pages/introduction.aspx

it says

A 2010 House of Commons Science and Technology Committee report on homeopathy said that homeopathic remedies perform no better than placebos, and that the principles on which homeopathy is based are "scientifically implausible". This is also the view of the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Dame Sally Davies.

 

So no don’t argue with me as you’ll lose.

 

As to other members perhaps you should leave them to post if they feel it appropriate, maybe they wouldn’t want to be brought into this……

[socks 32,253]

No matter what the topic whether it be medicinal mythology science god whatever we can sit here all day and find sites that agree and disagree with whatever it is your discussing ... Now my experience is not from reading about it but from using the stuff on different dogs and every single time it has worked ... If it hadn't worked I wouldn't keep using it and I wouldn't suggest it to somebody else ... Now unless four different dogs have all had a placebo effect then arnica what's worked for me every time .......

[desertbred 5,490]

Sandymere is Penecillin homeopathic or allopathic? most of the drug compounds today are formulated from natural herbs plants fungi and chemical base that are naturally occurring so your pages of waffle does not prove a lot now answer me if you are a thousand miles from the nearest vet how would you treat a sick animal or would you just bullet it? Your arguments are straight out of text books.When you study in University then enter the real world you throw away the text books and learn your trade or business/

Edited October 21, 2014 by desertbred

[jwalshe 14]

Pups leg gettin better dr anyway lads hes usin it a bit more an de swellin is abit better.. sound for de science lesson aswell haha..

[socks 32,253]

Pups leg gettin better dr anyway lads hes usin it a bit more an de swellin is abit better.. sound for de science lesson aswell haha..

Did you give the pup anything or is it getting better on its own ......

[jwalshe 14]

On its own id say another few days itl be grand again..

[socks 32,253]

Good stuff .......

[sandymere 8,263]

Desert bred an antibiotic is a drug as you well know, and yes many drugs are formulated from plant sources etc, what make them medicinal is that they have been found to have a therapeutic action for certain conditions. Basically a medicinal drug is “a chemical substance that affects the processes of the mind or body”. Homeopathy doesn’t have this effect so is not a drug.

 

 

 

As to experience of the real world lol, most of my 50 odd years have been populated with running dogs and my working life is populated with health and sickness. So I have a lot of real life experience, this is tempered with a realisation that there is a tremendous amount of information available to improve my practice, basically that evidence is what makes it professional rather than guesswork.This means i have to keep an open mind and learn every day, I learn to look for and evaluate the evidence, that often includes my own experience, then try to make an informed decision based on that evidence.

 

Socks are you telling the world that, if one where to take a bit of arnica, put in a bucket of water then shaken up and sideways 10 times, then take a drop of water from that bucket and place in a fresh bucket of water and shake again, then repeat many times until there is no chance of any arnica in the final bucket. Then take a drop of water from the final bucket, add this to some sugar or such like, form into a pill and dry the sugar so there’s no water left, that this pill will now have an effect? The water that is no longer there will have remembered the arnica, whilst it will have forgotten everything else it ever came into contact with and once ingested or rubbed on will then tell some part of the body how to get better!!!!!

Just imagine if it where true, the cost of drugs would plummet, the NHS would save millions!!!!!! One aspirin diluted into a couple of hundred gallons, at the very minimum, one drop each why it could be used to treat thousands of people for a couple of pence!!!!!!!!!!!

Or maybe the reason we take one headache tablet for a mild headache and two for a worse headache is that more not less increases the therapeutic effect.

Sorry if it all sounds a little harsh Socks but I expected better of you. A 4 month old pup with what is described as bad swelling and bruising to a leg needs an expert opinion, you well know it could have been, may still be, potentially very serious. At the very least you could have asked for a better description of what they meant, ie was the joint painful, was the whole leg swollen or where exactly was the swelling etc.

 

So to conclude, most people, and I thought this included socks hence the wording of my first post, do not know what homeopathy is, they think it’s a herbal medicine or such like. Once they realise it’s actually super dilutions they see it is just a placebo. Anyone who believes that diluting a drug until it is no longer present but the fluid from the dilution will be a cure for anything should go and take a good look in the mirror and wonder why they haven’t got the sense they were born with. The only thing it cures is the wedge from your wallet.

[desertbred 5,490]

Sandymere I have been round animals over 60 years and homeopaths,herbalists and natural remedies for as long, My mother was a Doctor my eldest Daughter is also a Doctor not Homeopathic I might add. your arguments are wanting as you are dismissing things that the medical profession are still researching., in as much as things like analgesics such as asprin, anti pyeretics such as quinine are all plant based as are hypnotics such as opium, cocaine hemp and cannabis etc these have been used medicinally for thousands of years especially in Asia and the Far East the hypnotics being diluted many times before medicinal prescription. I have experience of both chemical based and naturally occurring medicines for animal and human treatments and I am open minded as to what is usefull and what is not. I will agree a lot of shite is sold as homeopathic but in the same instance a lot of the generic and branded medicines are also questionable as to their effacy and value, One final point even some placeabos in blind trials seem to work for some people so the theory that dilution will not work is not totally correct is it. You take a spoon of live yoghurt dilute it in a bucket of warm mik what happens it becomes yoghurt so don't write anything off just yet atb

Edited October 22, 2014 by desertbred

[sandymere 8,263]

Now your just making straw men, if you put arnica in a bucket of water it doesn’t make yogurt and if you put a drop of milk into a bucket of water then dilute it till there’s no milk left you have water not yogurt.

Some medicines are doubtful but how does that make a disproven product right?

With ultra dilutions beyond the point of any of the original water molecules having come into contact with the original therapeutic, you make an extraordinary claim. One that has been investigated to death and found wanting, as I have already pointed out. If you can rewrite physics then go for it but remember….

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (Carl Sagan).

 

An analogy

Alice and Bob are two friends talking after school. Alice tells Bob that she watched a movie the previous evening. Bob believes her easily, because he knows that movies exist, that Alice exists, and that Alice is capable and fond of watching movies. If he doubts her, he might ask for a ticket stub or a confirmation from one of her friends. If, however, Alice tells Bob that she flew on a unicorn to a fairy kingdom where she participated in an ambrosia-eating contest, and she produces a professionally-printed contest certificate and a friend who would testify to the events described, Bob would still not be inclined to believe her without strong evidence for the existence of flying unicorns, fairies and ambrosia-eating contests.

(http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Extraordinary_claims_require_extraordinary_evidence )

 

edit to add

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/05/09/plausibility-does-not-mean-knowing-mechanism/

Edited October 22, 2014 by sandymere

[desertbred 5,490]

ignorance is bliss it was only 700 years ago people believed the world was flat and the moon had its own light source you far to readily dismiss things. I can also down load reams of supportive information to substantiate any claim but I don't under estimate or dismiss anything , the human race would have bee extinct millions of years ago ago with narrow mindedness. The same can be said of animals they have knowledge about natural remedies that Doctors and scientists cannot even imagine how or why certain remedies work.Scientists do not invent anything they only discover what is already there you are the one trying to justify things with scientific proof when you go to the Doctors with a illness he makes an informed guess as does a vetinery surgeon but nothing is written in stone, a perfect example is when a medicine that has undergone rigorous trials then is licenced and years down the road is found to be detrimental to health or quality of life than beneficial I think you are the one who jousts with windmills or builds straw men ,mans ability is only limited by his blinkers.

Edited October 22, 2014 by desertbred

[charlie boy 85]

ladies ladies enough yer both pretty

[desertbred 5,490]

you've got to pay for sex now in ireland