CREATION VS EVOLUTION??????????

[J Darcy 5,871]

The question was if anyone can prove evolution I will give them £1000.Micro evolution is the short term adaptability of species to their immediate enviroment,which is quite easily seen and proven eg Darwin observed how finches had adapted to their enviroment,Macro evolution is the changing from 1 kind to another which is the exaggeration of micro evolution and an ASSUMPTION.

A long ,long time ago in a galaxy far far away stuff.Stephen Hawkings believes in I D Intelligent design,Darwin himself said in his book "Origin of species "that his theory could not explain the complexities of the human eye.You can breed cow to cow ,dog to dog ,cat to cat etc and you will never get anything other than the kind bred,no new information can be added.The theory of evolution goes against the laws of physics eg 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics,im assuming thats why Hawkings etc believes in Intelligent Design.

The reason i started this thread was the other night i started to read my son a book on astronomy,and it said that 400million years ago all matter was condensed into a dot the size of a full stop,and in another 400million years all matter in space will be condensed back to the same condition.Where did the scientific info for that come from,i love science but i like to see evidence of what i believe.

Also im not trying to prove Christianity as some have assumed by their replies but just asking for proof of evolution.

 

PIP.....may i take you up on the cow, dog and cats you mentioned.

We humans have "Messed" with evolution in all these animals....the dog,for example pretty much started off quite uniform......it is us humans that have bred certain characteristics to form breeds over many centuries.....so you can breed cow to cow and, through manipulationg tiny little differences, you can change the pysical appearance over a period of time.

 

We started as "The Big Bang" according to many scientists, but of course,i know little of this. We are not all identical and this is the strength of all species on earth. The seemingly insignificant differences become exagerated to form a niche. it is still happening today.

For example,.the peppered moth. Below i have quoted a passage of text .....

 

The light-colored form of the moth, known as typica, was the predominant form in England prior to the beginning of the industrial revolution. Shown at left, the typica moth's speckled wings are easy to spot against a dark background, but would be difficult to pick out against the light-colored bark of many trees common in England.

The "typica" form of the moth.

Around the middle of the 19th century, however, a new form of the moth began to appear. The first report of a dark-colored peppered moth was made in 1848. By 1895, the frequency in Manchester had reached a reported level of 98% of the moths.

This dark-colored form is known as carbonaria, and (as shown at right), it is easiest to see against a light background. As you can well imagine, carbonaria would be almost invisible against a dark background, just as typica would be difficult to see against a light background. The increase in carbonaria moths was so dramatic that many naturalists made the immediate suggestion that it had to be the result of the effects of industrial activity on the local landscape.

 

 

i know we humans created the scenario that made such moths "change" their colour,but it shows how such changes can happen in a relatively short period of time.

 

Aside from humans and domesticated animals i believe evolution is going as strong as ever....

Just my opinion on such.............JD

[Guest baldie]

I won't associate myself with any religious man or woman, i have no time for idiots.

 

Bravo.

You fall into the group that perpetuates hatred , and blames it on religion.

I,m a christian. i dont force my beliefs on anyone, or anything, i just quietly get on with it, and whilst i do not agree with Aeithiests, i fully support their view, and right to express it, WITHOUT turning round, and calling them "idiots".

Do me a favour, quietly acknowledge my right to my beliefs, without calling me an idiot for believing them, and maybe the world will be a better place.

[Guest SJM]

Everything that humans create and design is a copy of something allready found in nature, and natures version is always infinately better. Ie the camera can capture stills and moving images, but then look at the human eye, it does this millions of times every single day and those images are stored in the best possible "hard drive" anyone could ever have, the human brain. We have put planes in the air but birds were up there long before humans managed it, and their wings and feathers have a much more intricate design than any aeroplane could ever have. No boat or submarine can travel through water the way fish can, I could go on and on theres thousands of examples of where nature far surpasses any human creation. Even seemingly meaningless things like a snowflake, every single one has a different pattern, no two are the same! A handful of soil, it contains thousands of tiny microscopic organisms all designed to fulfil some useful purpose.

 

Humans manage to rub a couple of sticks together and make fire, something lightening and electrical storms were more than capable of doing allready, and they shout about it as thought they came up with something new and all their own work. Everything we see around us has to have been made by someone, the chairs were sitting on, the keyboard were typing on, the house we live in, everything, so why oh why do we find it sooooo hard to grasp a simple theory that we were also created along with every other living thing around us, including the planet we live on and the surrounding universe?

 

Thats the way I see it, pretty straightforward really, I wouldnt say I consider myself to be an overly religious person, I just enjoy simple pleasures in life, and I think thats the problem nowadays, some people are looking for bizarre, complicated theories to explain how and why we got here, in the hope of disproving Gods existence. Personally I think people do this because of selfish reasons ie they dont want to admit that there is a God, and he made us, along with rules that we are supposed to live by, and consequences for our actions if we dont, because this then means we are answerable to him and that is what gets most people, they dont like the idea of their entire existence being at the mercy of a higher force and their actions in this lifetime, can have repercussions for whatever comes after death judgement day or whatever you want to call it.

 

A lot of very deep and profound threads on here lately, very enjoyable to read and its interesting hearing everyones different views

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 13, 2008 by oneredtrim

[Guest pip]

All right then ,i believe all of Evolution is pure crap[except micro evolution]i believe we are taught it in schools as a science when it has no place in a science lab as science is what can be observed,with the exception of the above mentioned form of evolution all is fictional .I will give anyone £1000 if you can offer me any hard evidence of any other aspect of the theory eg.chemical,macro,etc.I would offr more but i haven t got it

 

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Ntrbp...;cd=1&gl=uk

 

Stick your $'s up your shitter our kid.

Your point being mate???????Has aduck billed platipuss ever produced anything other than a duck billed platipuss?????????

No cash ,no card ,no chips

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 13, 2008 by oneredtrim

[J Darcy 5,871]

PIP...From what i believe natural evolution is a very gradual ,slow proccess taking many thousands of years.

 

That antelope in africa with the jigsaw patterns on its hide was struggling to find food in the drought. But a couple of the herd had necks an inch longer than the rest. These were able to reach the acacia leaves/buds/thorns that the others couldnt. This was enough for those individuals to survive when perhaps many others died of starvation. So the genes passed on from those two made a tiny,almost insignificant,increase to neck and leg length. This multiplied thousands and thousands of times resulted in the girraffe of today,....well,thats my opinion....JD

[J Darcy 5,871]

All right then ,i believe all of Evolution is pure crap[except micro evolution]i believe we are taught it in schools as a science when it has no place in a science lab as science is what can be observed,with the exception of the above mentioned form of evolution all is fictional .I will give anyone £1000 if you can offer me any hard evidence of any other aspect of the theory eg.chemical,macro,etc.I would offr more but i haven t got it

 

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Ntrbp...;cd=1&gl=uk

 

Stick your $'s up your shitter our kid.

Your point being mate???????Has aduck billed platipuss ever produced anything other than a duck billed platipuss?????????

No cash ,no card ,no chips

 

Is a platipuss micro evolution? Cause thats the only type you belief in or did JC pull a moody one? Human beings have produced human beings with two heads.

 

A two headed human being is a deformity though surely?...something that will never survive to perpetuate its genes ?.....Its the tiny fluctuations in the human apearances that must be regarded as evolution surely.... men getting taler,women getting larger breasts? over a period of time.....

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 13, 2008 by oneredtrim

[Guest pip]

The question was if anyone can prove evolution I will give them £1000.Micro evolution is the short term adaptability of species to their immediate enviroment,which is quite easily seen and proven eg Darwin observed how finches had adapted to their enviroment,Macro evolution is the changing from 1 kind to another which is the exaggeration of micro evolution and an ASSUMPTION.

A long ,long time ago in a galaxy far far away stuff.Stephen Hawkings believes in I D Intelligent design,Darwin himself said in his book "Origin of species "that his theory could not explain the complexities of the human eye.You can breed cow to cow ,dog to dog ,cat to cat etc and you will never get anything other than the kind bred,no new information can be added.The theory of evolution goes against the laws of physics eg 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics,im assuming thats why Hawkings etc believes in Intelligent Design.

The reason i started this thread was the other night i started to read my son a book on astronomy,and it said that 400million years ago all matter was condensed into a dot the size of a full stop,and in another 400million years all matter in space will be condensed back to the same condition.Where did the scientific info for that come from,i love science but i like to see evidence of what i believe.

Also im not trying to prove Christianity as some have assumed by their replies but just asking for proof of evolution.

 

PIP.....may i take you up on the cow, dog and cats you mentioned.

We humans have "Messed" with evolution in all these animals....the dog,for example pretty much started off quite uniform......it is us humans that have bred certain characteristics to form breeds over many centuries.....so you can breed cow to cow and, through manipulationg tiny little differences, you can change the pysical appearance over a period of time.

 

We started as "The Big Bang" according to many scientists, but of course,i know little of this. We are not all identical and this is the strength of all species on earth. The seemingly insignificant differences become exagerated to form a niche. it is still happening today.

For example,.the peppered moth. Below i have quoted a passage of text .....

 

The light-colored form of the moth, known as typica, was the predominant form in England prior to the beginning of the industrial revolution. Shown at left, the typica moth's speckled wings are easy to spot against a dark background, but would be difficult to pick out against the light-colored bark of many trees common in England.

The "typica" form of the moth.

Around the middle of the 19th century, however, a new form of the moth began to appear. The first report of a dark-colored peppered moth was made in 1848. By 1895, the frequency in Manchester had reached a reported level of 98% of the moths.

This dark-colored form is known as carbonaria, and (as shown at right), it is easiest to see against a light background. As you can well imagine, carbonaria would be almost invisible against a dark background, just as typica would be difficult to see against a light background. The increase in carbonaria moths was so dramatic that many naturalists made the immediate suggestion that it had to be the result of the effects of industrial activity on the local landscape.

 

 

i know we humans created the scenario that made such moths "change" their colour,but it shows how such changes can happen in a relatively short period of time.

 

Aside from humans and domesticated animals i believe evolution is going as strong as ever....

Just my opinion on such.............JD

I too have seen and heard the "evidence of the moth",some naturlists even where supergluing the dark moths on to trees to show there where more black than white,but J D while your replies are good your arguments are outdated by years as the mothes in question produced what????MOTHS.

Your answer proves my point that animals will adapt to survive but using already excisting information and yes in a relativly short period of time................MICRO EVOLUTION.So while i dislike the term ,as it has been grossly abused ,Micro evolution is a fact .

 

 

 

With regards to the microbes to man idea where did these small but complex organisms get the extra information to produce into anything other than what they are.

The first law of thermodynamics states simply that all energy has a source,

The second law of thermodynamics states simply that all things are degenerating,energy decreases from its soure.

 

Best way it was described to me was you put fuel in a car and drive it and the energy is used,so the energy that the earth ,sun ,microbes ,use is getting less not as evolution states getting greater.The earth and all in it are and have been on a downward spiral since creation not an upward spiral.

[J Darcy 5,871]

All right then ,i believe all of Evolution is pure crap[except micro evolution]i believe we are taught it in schools as a science when it has no place in a science lab as science is what can be observed,with the exception of the above mentioned form of evolution all is fictional .I will give anyone £1000 if you can offer me any hard evidence of any other aspect of the theory eg.chemical,macro,etc.I would offr more but i haven t got it

 

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Ntrbp...;cd=1&gl=uk

 

Stick your $'s up your shitter our kid.

Your point being mate???????Has aduck billed platipuss ever produced anything other than a duck billed platipuss?????????

No cash ,no card ,no chips

 

Is a platipuss micro evolution? Cause thats the only type you belief in or did JC pull a moody one? Human beings have produced human beings with two heads.

 

A two headed human being is a deformity though surely?...something that will never survive to perpetuate its genes ?.....Its the tiny fluctuations in the human apearances that must be regarded as evolution surely.... men getting taler,women getting larger breasts? over a period of time.....

 

It could be argued that all the little increments are deformitys Darce, Clint never taught all the orangs to kiss the females in order to try to induce a leg over...they reached that conclusion themselves. The apes and chimps rape...including thier young....the orangs dont....a big step.

 

yes i suppose they could.....but i think they are individual differences. Nature goes slowly.

 

 

Humans rape too......so are we nearer the chimps or the orangs?....

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 13, 2008 by oneredtrim

[Guest pip]

PIP...From what i believe natural evolution is a very gradual ,slow proccess taking many thousands of years.

 

That antelope in africa with the jigsaw patterns on its hide was struggling to find food in the drought. But a couple of the herd had necks an inch longer than the rest. These were able to reach the acacia leaves/buds/thorns that the others couldnt. This was enough for those individuals to survive when perhaps many others died of starvation. So the genes passed on from those two made a tiny,almost insignificant,increase to neck and leg length. This multiplied thousands and thousands of times resulted in the girraffe of today,....well,thats my opinion....JD

JD micro evolution goes as far as passing already excisting info to the benefit of the species but at no time is there any additional info added ,they don t get feathers or if Africa slowly flooded they would nt get gills or fins so the use of already excisting info is micro evolution not macro ie.microbes to man.

 

Look for example the difference between the lurcher and the chihuahua,1 is man breeding excisting info to produce a elite running machine,the other is the losing of almost all beneficial qualities to produce a useless dog.Take man out of the equation and it may take longer but the faster more dominant etc dogs will out survive the chihauhuas,and the breeding of the surviving best of the best animals will produce a type BUT they will never produce anything other than a DOG.

[Guest oneredtrim]

.

Edited January 13, 2008 by oneredtrim

[Guest pip]

.

 

Best way it was described to me was you put fuel in a car and drive it and the energy is used,so the energy that the earth ,sun ,microbes ,use is getting less not as evolution states getting greater.The earth and all in it are and have been on a downward spiral since creation not an upward spiral.

 

 

Which is why man went to the moon, some of us will be getting Hoffmans and the rest of us will be left in the Human Zoo (ask Mr. Morris about it)

 

About the Platipuss...you did'nt answer me...is the creature Micro evolution?

 

Is it micro evolution??????don t understand,what did you or anyone else observe the platypuss adapting to do.I know this that it was never anything other than a platypuss.I think you misunderstand the term micro evolution.