From pot filler to fox slayer

[fathom 2]

Here's a question thats been playing on my mind for a while, if the lurcher was purpose bread to prevent it from looking like a Greyhound back in the day by poachers as only noble men could own Greyhounds, and was used to provide meat for the table or game to sell to the dealers when did it progress to being a fox dog ????

 

Look forward to your replies

 

Yours in sport

 

Fathom

[holy grail 0]

wow. thats a very serious, very technical question fathom. perhaps it were always a fox dog, with mabye more than one purpose. golly thats difficult.

[gaz 284]

Here's a question thats been playing on my mind for a while, if the lurcher was purpose bread to prevent it from looking like a Greyhound back in the day by poachers as only noble men could own Greyhounds, and was used to provide meat for the table or game to sell to the dealers when did it progress to being a fox dog ????

 

Look forward to your replies

 

Yours in sport

 

Fathom

 

From day one id say,i think id be right on saying the original or early lurcher were bred from greyhounds and herding dogs,two breeds which can be overlooked by today's lurcher faternity(with all the bull x bred for foxing lurchers) which can have the attributes of drive and aggresion ect which is needed for a lurcher to kill a fox,especially back in the day when herding dogs were often worked on stubborn bullocks and the like often facing the dogs down thus needing a certain type of herder to stand its ground and maybe a bit of teeth on hide to bring him back into line,granted these herding and collie types are bit rarer nowadays but proberly this being your average stamp of herding dog back then

 

So this hard collie type matched with a dertemined greyhound,the type which hate being second to any dog,the fighter you sometimes see today at the track,the ones which are a bit of a loose cannon and sometimes have the 1000 miles stare about them......usually the ones that never make it as a racer but often do well on live stuff including fox,now you have a dog which if exposed to old charlie when the old type poacher was mouching about at dawn or dusk looking for his supper and was let to its own devices which would've happened eventually would have resulted with a fox run and killed by his lurcher,as i was saying i think fox killing lurchers were always there if the right dogs were used in the breeding

Edited October 18, 2007 by gaz

[Chaz 6]

Here's a question thats been playing on my mind for a while, if the lurcher was purpose bread to prevent it from looking like a Greyhound back in the day by poachers as only noble men could own Greyhounds, and was used to provide meat for the table or game to sell to the dealers when did it progress to being a fox dog ????

 

Look forward to your replies

 

Yours in sport

 

Fathom

 

 

The right type Greyhound has always been considered a "Fox Dog" so if these were used in the early creation of the "lurcher" then most of the early lurchers would of been able to handle fox, the thing is that "greyhounds" came in a lot of different guises in centuries gone by and only when Lord Orford added Bull blooded dogs did they begin to standardise in to the dogs we know today, and guess what modern lurchermen are adding to greyhound to produce fox dogs you got it bull blooded dogs,

nothing is new in this game it has all been done before but we like to think that modern lurcher men are better educated and understand the genetics of the thing more, but Lord Orford and his peers were intelligent working dogmen and used there practical experience to add the fire that was needed when competitve coursing became the vogue,

So I would say lurchers and greyhounds since the year dot have had the ability to be fox dogs it has been down to the owner whether they utilised this trait or not

[fathom 2]

Thanks for your replies .

 

I've read a bit about lord orford and the introduction of bull blood into greyhound to add a bit of fire in the bellies i also read that this is were modern greyhounds get there brindle markings.

 

i understand that the collie cross from old would have been capable of taking a fox and like you say gaz when out mooching apon seeing one it might of chased it and killed it on its own accord, but when did foxing with lurchers become the vogue when did the move over come, from we better go out and catch the dinner are we'll go hungry till lets go out with the dog and nab a fox???? was it terrier men that first started working lurchers along with there terriers as i've read that lamping never came into vogue until the late fifties early sixties correct me if i am wrong,

 

a better question would have been when did taking fox with lurchers become a sport in it own right????

[Chaz 6]

Thanks for your replies .

 

I've read a bit about lord orford and the introduction of bull blood into greyhound to add a bit of fire in the bellies i also read that this is were modern greyhounds get there brindle markings.

 

i understand that the collie cross from old would have been capable of taking a fox and like you say gaz when out mooching apon seeing one it might of chased it and killed it on its own accord, but when did foxing with lurchers become the vogue when did the move over come, from we better go out and catch the dinner are we'll go hungry till lets go out with the dog and nab a fox???? was it terrier men that first started working lurchers along with there terriers as i've read that lamping never came into vogue until the late fifties early sixties correct me if i am wrong,

 

a better question would have been when did taking fox with lurchers become a sport in it own right????

 

 

When it became easy to feed the family and the government of the day decided that they better make sure the "hoi polloi" didn`t starve to death , I would say the dog men decided to test their dogs on different quarry as it didn`t matter if the dog was hors de combat for a while as it was not the difference between a meal on the table and an empty belly, it probably became more in vogue when the lamping scene started as it was far easier to find a fox abroad during the hours of darkness than during the day, so probably around the late 1970`s early 1980`s I would of thought

Edited October 18, 2007 by Chaz

[Guest reload]

Here's a question thats been playing on my mind for a while, if the lurcher was purpose bread to prevent it from looking like a Greyhound back in the day by poachers as only noble men could own Greyhounds, and was used to provide meat for the table or game to sell to the dealers when did it progress to being a fox dog ????

 

Look forward to your replies

 

Yours in sport

 

Fathom

 

 

The right type Greyhound has always been considered a "Fox Dog" so if these were used in the early creation of the "lurcher" then most of the early lurchers would of been able to handle fox, the thing is that "greyhounds" came in a lot of different guises in centuries gone by and only when Lord Orford added Bull blooded dogs did they begin to standardise in to the dogs we know today, and guess what modern lurchermen are adding to greyhound to produce fox dogs you got it bull blooded dogs,

nothing is new in this game it has all been done before but we like to think that modern lurcher men are better educated and understand the genetics of the thing more, but Lord Orford and his peers were intelligent working dogmen and used there practical experience to add the fire that was needed when competitve coursing became the vogue,

So I would say lurchers and greyhounds since the year dot have had the ability to be fox dogs it has been down to the owner whether they utilised this trait or not

 

 

Good posst Chazz, bang on there...Nothings new

 

'This was Lord Orfords first cross' I scanned it from one of my old books,, remind you of any dogs these days?? :hmm:

 

Edited October 18, 2007 by reload

[J Darcy 5,871]

I honestly do not think that the "lurcher" was ever bred to fool peoples eyes.

[fathom 2]

I honestly do not think that the "lurcher" was ever bred to fool peoples eyes.

 

Just Going by what i have read J Darcy, as i have no mentors and work alone i rely on books old and new for information

most books i have read on lurchers claim that greyhounds were crossed with other dogs to diquise it from looking like a greyhound as the penelty for a peasant or a none noble man owning a greyhound was very high, and that it just so happens that by crossing the greyhound with the collie or droving dog of that time that they ended up with a smarter dog.

Im only going by what i have read and maybe this is not the case who knows

[sandymere 8,263]

Most modern lurchers would have been thought of as greyhounds in days gone by as greyhounds were a mixed bag, including rough and smooth coated, large and small in size one of these crossed with a collie might well lock like a 3/4 collie 1/4 greyhound and so pass by the uninformed layman as a collie. The early greyhound type were most likely used for wolf (stock protection) long before fox but fox might be a good training aid in the development of a wolf dog.

[danny boi 0]

im pretty new to the game compared to some of you more experienced gentleman but we know people ate badger ham but is there a possibility that foxes were also eaten to simply survive??

 

just a thaught.

 

dan

[Bush Rummager 4,760]

Nowt to do with foxes, but....

 

back in the days when the lurcher was , as they say, berd to look like a mongrel, so not to raise susspission by the passing keeper,

 

excuse me... but i cant believe that upon seeing the collie 'coated' dog, the keepers never raised an eyebrow at the shady looking man on the other end of the lead!.... especially with his muddy boots... bulging game pocket within his jacket.. and a pocket full of snares!!! in the middle of nowhere..

 

J.M.O....

 

wish those keepers were arond today...