WILF 46,565 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Personally, I don't think Bush or his lapdog Blair had any f***ing right (or the understanding) to go meddling in Muslim affairs, regime change etc etc. They started a shitstorm, didn't have a clear understanding of what they were getting into and got a lot of young men and women killed in the process !!! They should be put on trial !! You can launch hundreds of cruise missiles on a city with very spurious justification but if you cut some dudes head off your a savage !!........news flash, both sides are as savage as each other !! 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think mistakes are always going to be made with foreign policy. No doubt Britain and the US has made mistakes. But the Middle East remains of huge strategic importance to both of us and as long as that is the case it will remain a significant part of our foreign policies. I'm okay with that, but then I'm British by birth, blood and essence. This life/world is all about competition, you either play hard or get beat, historically Britain has played hard. What I'm trying to say is that yes there has been a lot of manipulation of the middle east by Britain but not untill it's strategic importance was realised and the threat of the Russian empire loomed. It was a race for control between empires and now we are dealing with the consiquences of that bit of history. Had it not been British/Russian it'd of been other empires. I think it's very easy to just say "Britain should never have interfered and should not be interfering now", I think that ship has sailed. All this just reinforces what I've always believed, we should not have cut Defence! It's the cornerstone of our society. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,565 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Don't agree with that Born Hunter, it's not complicated.....in Arab society the bloke at the top with a big stick is the govenor and all you need to do is buy him, same as we have done in Africa for years. It's cheaper, don't cause any world upset and saves a lot of young lives. History proves that if you push indigenous people hard enough they will push back but if you screw your loaf and keep the money trickling in and the status quo then nothing much happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ggib 370 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I myself was Educated here up to degree level, Injustice happens all round the world so what better way to try and change it but by education and an understanding of both sides of the fence. I am Muslim by birth and choose to remai n one it does not mean that I dont see things wrong within my own faith but I dont have the All Christians and Catholics are c**ts attitude or they are brainwashed which is what I read on here about Muslims see Maxhardcores last post . As I have said before on here my Mother is Irish her entire family are in the Orange lodge so how am I anti what ever or trying to change your system , you dont try to change me and I certainly have no intention to change you my working life is finished LOL thats where you went wrong desertbred mate you should have chose yer mas line lol 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think mistakes are always going to be made with foreign policy. No doubt Britain and the US has made mistakes. But the Middle East remains of huge strategic importance to both of us and as long as that is the case it will remain a significant part of our foreign policies. I'm okay with that, but then I'm British by birth, blood and essence. This life/world is all about competition, you either play hard or get beat, historically Britain has played hard. What I'm trying to say is that yes there has been a lot of manipulation of the middle east by Britain but not untill it's strategic importance was realised and the threat of the Russian empire loomed. It was a race for control between empires and now we are dealing with the consiquences of that bit of history. Had it not been British/Russian it'd of been other empires. I think it's very easy to just say "Britain should never have interfered and should not be interfering now", I think that ship has sailed. All this just reinforces what I've always believed, we should not have cut Defence! It's the cornerstone of our society. But born....you're one of those guys, who would think Britain were justified to invade sweden because they've got funny accents! You just can't help your loyalty & I get that mate........but how has it helped us as a nation? Our long term involvement in the Middle East, has only ever helped to increase the danger on home soil, never decrease it.....more grieving family's & less understanding...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertbred 5,490 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) To me armies are to defend the borders of your own country to provide security to the citzens not to invade other countries. I f a country has some thing another country wants then negotiate and agree on some beneficial arrangement. Just because the n middle east is strategically important or rich in natural resources doesnt give any other nation the right to invade. Just as immigrants should not enter countries illegally and loot its natural resources such as Housing social facilities and Benefits, is it the immigrants illegal or other wise who determine policy in the country they reside? The whole world has problems they are not created by one system , religion or culture. In the 60,s some one told me here that you could see signs in B&Bs saying "No Blacks Irish or Dogs allowed" things have moved on since then, you would have probably found similar signs in the middle east and Africa . Edited August 21, 2014 by desertbred Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertbred 5,490 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Don't agree with that Born Hunter, it's not complicated.....in Arab society the bloke at the top with a big stick is the govenor and all you need to do is buy him, same as we have done in Africa for years. It's cheaper, don't cause any world upset and saves a lot of young lives. History proves that if you push indigenous people hard enough they will push back but if you screw your loaf and keep the money trickling in and the status quo then nothing much happens. Unfortunately you seem to under stand life in the Middle East Wilf LOL Edited August 21, 2014 by desertbred Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Don't agree with that Born Hunter, it's not complicated.....in Arab society the bloke at the top with a big stick is the govenor and all you need to do is buy him, same as we have done in Africa for years. It's cheaper, don't cause any world upset and saves a lot of young lives. History proves that if you push indigenous people hard enough they will push back but if you screw your loaf and keep the money trickling in and the status quo then nothing much happens. I'm not saying that the approach of spreading 'democracy and freedom' is the right way Wilf. I'm just saying that the middle east of of strategic importance to the west so there is going to be interference, we wont just pretend it doesn't exist and leave them to it. Paying the man with the biggest stick proved unreliable so tactically things diversified and other methods were used in addition. Like I said, we made plenty of mistakes and we will continue to as long as there's oil in the sand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertbred 5,490 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) I myself was Educated here up to degree level, Injustice happens all round the world so what better way to try and change it but by education and an understanding of both sides of the fence. I am Muslim by birth and choose to remai n one it does not mean that I dont see things wrong within my own faith but I dont have the All Christians and Catholics are c**ts attitude or they are brainwashed which is what I read on here about Muslims see Maxhardcores last post . As I have said before on here my Mother is Irish her entire family are in the Orange lodge so how am I anti what ever or trying to change your system , you dont try to change me and I certainly have no intention to change you my working life is finished LOL thats where you went wrong desertbred mate you should have chose yer mas line lol they would not have me mate said I wasnt radical enough and I couldnt play a drum or a whistle Edited August 21, 2014 by desertbred 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 But born....you're one of those guys, who would think Britain were justified to invade sweden because they've got funny accents! You just can't help your loyalty & I get that mate........but how has it helped us as a nation? Our long term involvement in the Middle East, has only ever helped to increase the danger on home soil, never decrease it.....more grieving family's & less understanding...... Not at all, but if Sweden was of strategic importance and the British empire and Russian empire knew that, then yeah I would invade and occupy. It may have increased the danger compared to staying out completely but it's also kept the oil flowing.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,565 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 America is a petulant, spoilt, bad mannered, greedy child of a country........why the f**k the birthplace if democracy is cutting about on their coat tails escapes me !! We have public khazis in London older than their country and yet they are dictating what everyone should and should not do! It's a joke. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutch6 550 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 This is ridiculous. Ask a perfectly normal question, get no answer. Right. So if history reflects on today's society then that society has learned bugger all from what has gone before. We learn from historical mistakes, we do not repeat them or at least I hope we don't. "what about the Spanish Inquisition?" "What about the English civil war?" "What about the Spanish-Portugese war?" "What about the cursdaes?" "What about slavery?" "What about..." What about...." Yeah, what about them? Is there anybody alive today that was part of them? Who or what the heck are people trying to blame? Heritage?Cultural history? It is a totally invalid argument because this stuff the world is seeing and talking about is happening right now in what is supposed to be a civilised society!! It boils my water to think these so called "proud people" may well be never brought to justice because our government has zero backbone but what really makes me seethe is the fact that the Muslim community that is harbouring and producing these radicals does absolutely jack about the situation except play the "it's the minority" card. It is they who are causing the social unrest between the Muslim community and "us" or whatever term you want you use due to this total disregard. It is frankly embarrassing to hear these British Muslims talk about their intent and cause because it doesn't just affect how the world views Muslims it also affects how the world views Britain or any country producing these cowards. We, are allowing the evolution of these soldiers of Allah on our very doorstep so let it be known to the muslim community that if they won't tackle the problem within then, We, the British public as a whole, must stop this from happening by any means necessary. DB, you've already said stop building mosques and licence them instead, I would go one step further and remove any Muslim from a position of influence or responsibility within a community be it on a council, a school or parliament. These positions can not be occupied dutifully to the community as a whole if the person's highest priority is the Muslim faith, it favours one section of society of any other. Yes Christians, Jehovah's Witness etc come knocking on people's doors to spread their beliefs, they don't view me as a threat or an adversary and then try to kill me. Imagine if the Catholic/Christian community said one day "enough is enough" and they started decapitating folk on camera and showing the world and just before they did so they said "In the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit!". If a child is born to a Muslim father then that child is raised a muslim. If the child is born to a muslim mother but a non-muslim father than that child can not be raised a muslim. It is perfectly OK for a Muslim man to beat his wife. Men are put first in the Quaran. It's all very geared towards empowering the men to be some kind of ultimate macho being but really, they are just cowards. Only a coward would beat a woman. Only a coward wouldn't be strong enough to think for them-self. Only a coward would not have an open mind. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 To me armies are to defend the borders of your own country to provide security to the citzens not to invade other countries. I f a country has some thing another country wants then negotiate and agree on some beneficial arrangement. Just because the n middle east is strategically important or rich in natural resources doesnt give any other nation the right to invade. Just as immigrants should not enter countries illegally and loot its natural resources such as Housing social facilities and Benefits, is it the immigrants illegal or other wise who determine policy in the country they reside? The whole world has problems they are not created by one system , religion or culture. In the 60,s some one told me here that you could see signs in B&Bs saying "No Blacks Irish or Dogs allowed" things have moved on since then, you would have probably found similar signs in the middle east and Africa . In principle I agree with that, but in reality I think things are not that simple. To me a military is there to protect a nations interests from threats, not just the borders. If a country has a dependance on something and a foreign nation threatens that then that's as good to me as threatening invasion. The west and middle east have a symbiotic relationship unfortunately.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ggib 370 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 America is a petulant, spoilt, bad mannered, greedy child of a country........why the f**k the birthplace if democracy is cutting about on their coat tails escapes me !! We have public khazis in London older than their country and yet they are dictating what everyone should and should not do! It's a joke. but they dont take an crap from no one wilf and if attacked will defend themselves to the death, even to use the ultimate of weapons, which weve seen in ww2, you have to admire them for that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 America is a petulant, spoilt, bad mannered, greedy child of a country........why the f**k the birthplace if democracy is cutting about on their coat tails escapes me !! We have public khazis in London older than their country and yet they are dictating what everyone should and should not do! It's a joke. That's their right as the Worlds most dominant power. It's brought relitive peace to the world as historically happens whenever a single power becomes so dominant all others haven't a chance. More Britons died on a single beach on D-day than in the entire Afghan conflict and we seem to think times are violent these days (that's just a general observation, not a comment to you wilf). I fear the day Americas might is matched by China and Russia and we once again see a race between empires to dominate the world. That's all by the by mind, just my ramblings on world politics, lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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