WILF 46,687 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hutch, history always repeats itself......it's one of the few certain things in the world. It's like all this business with Putin, fair play to the dude I say.......he don't want a very sinister operation like the EU sitting right on his border so he did something about it. He sees it for what it is, a power mad, un-democratic dictatorship.....they just dress it up different. To me, despite all the vilification, Russia has more right to military action in Ukrain than we do in the Middle East. Their borders are being directly threatened, just not by tanks and soldiers but by grey men in suits. Smoke and mirrors by every western government !! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,687 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 America is a petulant, spoilt, bad mannered, greedy child of a country........why the f**k the birthplace if democracy is cutting about on their coat tails escapes me !! We have public khazis in London older than their country and yet they are dictating what everyone should and should not do! It's a joke. That's their right as the Worlds most dominant power. It's brought relitive peace to the world as historically happens whenever a single power becomes so dominant all others haven't a chance. More Britons died on a single beach on D-day than in the entire Afghan conflict and we seem to think times are violent these days (that's just a general observation, not a comment to you wilf). I fear the day Americas might is matched by China and Russia and we once again see a race between empires to dominate the world. That's all by the by mind, just my ramblings on world politics, lol. Why is it their right?.......Hitler didn't have any "right" to invade Poland !! Men died on the Normandy beach fighting a direct threat, men died in Afghanistan because two clowns decided to start a war for shits and gigs !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertbred 5,490 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) This is ridiculous. Ask a perfectly normal question, get no answer. Right. So if history reflects on today's society then that society has learned bugger all from what has gone before. We learn from historical mistakes, we do not repeat them or at least I hope we don't. "what about the Spanish Inquisition?" "What about the English civil war?" "What about the Spanish-Portugese war?" "What about the cursdaes?" "What about slavery?" "What about..." What about...." Yeah, what about them? Is there anybody alive today that was part of them? Who or what the heck are people trying to blame? Heritage?Cultural history? It is a totally invalid argument because this stuff the world is seeing and talking about is happening right now in what is supposed to be a civilised society!! It boils my water to think these so called "proud people" may well be never brought to justice because our government has zero backbone but what really makes me seethe is the fact that the Muslim community that is harbouring and producing these radicals does absolutely jack about the situation except play the "it's the minority" card. It is they who are causing the social unrest between the Muslim community and "us" or whatever term you want you use due to this total disregard. It is frankly embarrassing to hear these British Muslims talk about their intent and cause because it doesn't just affect how the world views Muslims it also affects how the world views Britain or any country producing these cowards. We, are allowing the evolution of these soldiers of Allah on our very doorstep so let it be known to the muslim community that if they won't tackle the problem within then, We, the British public as a whole, must stop this from happening by any means necessary. DB, you've already said stop building mosques and licence them instead, I would go one step further and remove any Muslim from a position of influence or responsibility within a community be it on a council, a school or parliament. These positions can not be occupied dutifully to the community as a whole if the person's highest priority is the Muslim faith, it favours one section of society of any other. Yes Christians, Jehovah's Witness etc come knocking on people's doors to spread their beliefs, they don't view me as a threat or an adversary and then try to kill me. Imagine if the Catholic/Christian community said one day "enough is enough" and they started decapitating folk on camera and showing the world and just before they did so they said "In the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit!". As Muslims shouldnt occupy any position of authority are you going to get rid of all the Muslim Doctors and Surgeons in the NHS and the thousands of pharmacists who are muaslim your argumrents have more holes than a sieve If a child is born to a Muslim father then that child is raised a muslim. If the child is born to a muslim mother but a non-muslim father than that child can not be raised a muslim. It is perfectly OK for a Muslim man to beat his wife. Men are put first in the Quaran. It's all very geared towards empowering the men to be some kind of ultimate macho being but really, they are just cowards. Only a coward would beat a woman. Only a coward wouldn't be strong enough to think for them-self. Only a coward would not have an open mind. History influences everything from world wars to scientific discoveries . To deny it is a sure route to failure. You use the word coward a lot what makes a coward ? do yo know. Get rid of any Muslim in a position of authority you mean the Muslim doctors Surgeons, Pharmacists etc in the Nhs Your view point has more holes than my hunting wellies Edited August 21, 2014 by desertbred Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE STIFFMEISTER 15,752 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 If Isis conquer Iraq then it will stay at that as Iraq is a confirmed world toilet However if it started reaching its greedy tentacles into Kuwait Iran UAE etc there would be huge repercussions I'm of the opinion that Iran would hit them with everything they have as soon as they mounted an offensive Iran are not to be messed with, their the gypsy at the door of the Middle East, best kept at arms length Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 But born....you're one of those guys, who would think Britain were justified to invade sweden because they've got funny accents! You just can't help your loyalty & I get that mate........but how has it helped us as a nation? Our long term involvement in the Middle East, has only ever helped to increase the danger on home soil, never decrease it.....more grieving family's & less understanding...... Not at all, but if Sweden was of strategic importance and the British empire and Russian empire knew that, then yeah I would invade and occupy. It may have increased the danger compared to staying out completely but it's also kept the oil flowing.... You would make a great spin doctor born....... I think us, the little people, would be much happier as a nation, maybe even safer if we'd had absolutely no involvement in the last 10 or so years........& maybe take our chances like many other nations do, that also rely on oil...... I'm sure you have the answers mate, but I think your 'high' interest in military history, military hardware & it's use sometimes clouds your viewpoint.........not dig, just an observation Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertbred 5,490 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 To me armies are to defend the borders of your own country to provide security to the citzens not to invade other countries. I f a country has some thing another country wants then negotiate and agree on some beneficial arrangement. Just because the n middle east is strategically important or rich in natural resources doesnt give any other nation the right to invade. Just as immigrants should not enter countries illegally and loot its natural resources such as Housing social facilities and Benefits, is it the immigrants illegal or other wise who determine policy in the country they reside? The whole world has problems they are not created by one system , religion or culture. In the 60,s some one told me here that you could see signs in B&Bs saying "No Blacks Irish or Dogs allowed" things have moved on since then, you would have probably found similar signs in the middle east and Africa . In principle I agree with that, but in reality I think things are not that simple. To me a military is there to protect a nations interests from threats, not just the borders. If a country has a dependance on something and a foreign nation threatens that then that's as good to me as threatening invasion. The west and middle east have a symbiotic relationship unfortunately.... so you are threatening islam by your argument we have the right to defend it strategically where ever we need to ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 America is a petulant, spoilt, bad mannered, greedy child of a country........why the f**k the birthplace if democracy is cutting about on their coat tails escapes me !! We have public khazis in London older than their country and yet they are dictating what everyone should and should not do! It's a joke. That's their right as the Worlds most dominant power. It's brought relitive peace to the world as historically happens whenever a single power becomes so dominant all others haven't a chance. More Britons died on a single beach on D-day than in the entire Afghan conflict and we seem to think times are violent these days (that's just a general observation, not a comment to you wilf). I fear the day Americas might is matched by China and Russia and we once again see a race between empires to dominate the world. That's all by the by mind, just my ramblings on world politics, lol. Why is it their right?.......Hitler didn't have any "right" to invade Poland !! Men died on the Normandy beach fighting a direct threat, men died in Afghanistan because two clowns decided to start a war for shits and gigs !! It's their right by nature, just like your man with the biggest stick in Africa can do what the f**k he wants. I'm not talking morally. My comparison between D-day and Afghanistan was purely a comparison of how violent the times we live in are. WWII was another tipping point in world history where empires were competing for dominance and a shit load of people died. Since then the US has been dominant and the conflicts we see today are f**k all in comparison. I was purely illustrating how such dominance generally brings peace. It's the motto the Royal Navy live by. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,687 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 If Isis conquer Iraq then it will stay at that as Iraq is a confirmed world toilet However if it started reaching its greedy tentacles into Kuwait Iran UAE etc there would be huge repercussions I'm of the opinion that Iran would hit them with everything they have as soon as they mounted an offensive Iran are not to be messed with, their the gypsy at the door of the Middle East, best kept at arms length Leave gypsys out of this you clown shoes !! Lol lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,687 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 America is a petulant, spoilt, bad mannered, greedy child of a country........why the f**k the birthplace if democracy is cutting about on their coat tails escapes me !! We have public khazis in London older than their country and yet they are dictating what everyone should and should not do! It's a joke. That's their right as the Worlds most dominant power. It's brought relitive peace to the world as historically happens whenever a single power becomes so dominant all others haven't a chance. More Britons died on a single beach on D-day than in the entire Afghan conflict and we seem to think times are violent these days (that's just a general observation, not a comment to you wilf). I fear the day Americas might is matched by China and Russia and we once again see a race between empires to dominate the world. That's all by the by mind, just my ramblings on world politics, lol. Why is it their right?.......Hitler didn't have any "right" to invade Poland !! Men died on the Normandy beach fighting a direct threat, men died in Afghanistan because two clowns decided to start a war for shits and gigs !! It's their right by nature, just like your man with the biggest stick in Africa can do what the f**k he wants. I'm not talking morally. My comparison between D-day and Afghanistan was purely a comparison of how violent the times we live in are. WWII was another tipping point in world history where empires were competing for dominance and a shit load of people died. Since then the US has been dominant and the conflicts we see today are f**k all in comparison. I was purely illustrating how such dominance generally brings peace. It's the motto the Royal Navy live by. The navy are melts so forget them !! Lol Mate, the worlds as complicated and savage as it ever was, people are dieing in the same numbers.......it's just the powers that be are a lost more sophisticated in how they go about it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertbred 5,490 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 To me armies are to defend the borders of your own country to provide security to the citzens not to invade other countries. I f a country has some thing another country wants then negotiate and agree on some beneficial arrangement. Just because the n middle east is strategically important or rich in natural resources doesnt give any other nation the right to invade. Just as immigrants should not enter countries illegally and loot its natural resources such as Housing social facilities and Benefits, is it the immigrants illegal or other wise who determine policy in the country they reside? The whole world has problems they are not created by one system , religion or culture. In the 60,s some one told me here that you could see signs in B&Bs saying "No Blacks Irish or Dogs allowed" things have moved on since then, you would have probably found similar signs in the middle east and Africa . In principle I agree with that, but in reality I think things are not that simple. To me a military is there to protect a nations interests from threats, not just the borders. If a country has a dependance on something and a foreign nation threatens that then that's as good to me as threatening invasion. The west and middle east have a symbiotic relationship unfortunately.... so you are threatening islam by your argument do we have the right to defend it strategically where ever we need to ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 so you are threatening islam by your argument we have the right to defend it strategically where ever we need to ? That's the whole reason for conflict in the middle east, LOL. Conflict of interests. I'm past playing the blame game or whose the rightious ones. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ggib 370 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I myself was Educated here up to degree level, Injustice happens all round the world so what better way to try and change it but by education and an understanding of both sides of the fence. I am Muslim by birth and choose to remai n one it does not mean that I dont see things wrong within my own faith but I dont have the All Christians and Catholics are c**ts attitude or they are brainwashed which is what I read on here about Muslims see Maxhardcores last post . As I have said before on here my Mother is Irish her entire family are in the Orange lodge so how am I anti what ever or trying to change your system , you dont try to change me and I certainly have no intention to change you my working life is finished LOL thats where you went wrong desertbred mate you should have chose yer mas line lol they would not have me mate said I wasnt radical enough and I couldnt play a drum or a whistle thats you off peter robinsons christmas card list then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertbred 5,490 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 If Isis conquer Iraq then it will stay at that as Iraq is a confirmed world toilet However if it started reaching its greedy tentacles into Kuwait Iran UAE etc there would be huge repercussions I'm of the opinion that Iran would hit them with everything they have as soon as they mounted an offensive Iran are not to be messed with, their the gypsy at the door of the Middle East, best kept at arms length I have some Nuclear Heather here I mean Lucky Heather do you want some, IS IT COS IM GYPSY INNIT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 You would make a great spin doctor born....... I think us, the little people, would be much happier as a nation, maybe even safer if we'd had absolutely no involvement in the last 10 or so years........& maybe take our chances like many other nations do, that also rely on oil...... I'm sure you have the answers mate, but I think your 'high' interest in military history, military hardware & it's use sometimes clouds your viewpoint.........not dig, just an observation Do you seriously believe the UK and US should completely pull out of the middle east? The strait of Hormuz closes and in 3 months this country stops dead.... Anti Piracy operations end in the Indian ocean and the threat to world shipping goes which way? I've said we have made foreign policy errors, but our military presence in the middle eastern region is absolutely essential to our lives in the UK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,062 Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 and us" Muslims" think you treat your women badly In what way ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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