Dam Or Sire What Has More Influence On Pups ?

[whitefeet4190 1,725]

Yer I know what ur saying max but the trainer had trained 100s of horses and had slot of winners and has trained horses sired by the one in question and some of them have been unbeatable but like u say there are lots of different factors when talking about breeding

Atb

[oddser 79]

theres always exception to the rules but if you have good brood they throw good uns every litter they are golden bitches some top greyhound breeders have had sucsess with unraced bitches they have thrown top class some work on that breeding with young stock gets you in front of the game as every generation is better than the last but you can talk about it forever end of the day theres no formula lot of luck

[stabba 10,745]

As said on paper it is 50/50 but in reality 60/40 to the bitch side.

So if that were the case....every inbred/linebred line would eventually throw to the dams side with no traits from the sire at all.......i think lol

[bullmastiff 615]

With breeding you've got to consider that it's all about Chromosomes.

Dogs have 39 pairs of Chromosomes. You always get one side of the pair from the Sire and one from the Dam. Their basically tiny technical drawings for the cells to make the dog. So if both Chromosomes say black fur, you get black fur etc. One of the genes is usually more dominant than the other within most breeds (things like pointed ears in GSD's) things like this will show through in most of the pups.

By line breeding or in-breeding, your restricting the amount of different Genes joining the pool so you start to restrict the amount of variances in the pups. the more in-bred the pups the more alike most of them will become.

Brother and sister breeding's can still throw completely different dogs as they might of got completely different chromosomes from their parents. ie. Bitch got 10, 01 from the breeding and the Dog got 01,10 form the breeding. This might mean the Bitch had long hair and the dog, short hair... so the pups from this mating will still have a 50-50 chance of having long hair (unless one of the Genes is Dominant, then most will have one variance and a few will have the other)

By line breeding you would breed short hair dog to short hair bitch to reduce the chance of long hair pups. You'll always get whats called throw-backs to previous Grand parents etc so very occasionally a pup will be born with long hair.

It's the same with certain working abilities, Like stamina, breed two dogs with good Stamina then you increase the chance of the pups having Stamina but you don't remove completely the chance a pup can not have stamina of it's siblings.

Tha'ts how some dogs can be crap workers but throw great working pups. The dog's and Bitch's Genes happen to throw towards the decent side as opposed to the crap side of the Gene pool.

 

And yes I am pissed!!

[nans pat 2,575]

With breeding you've got to consider that it's all about Chromosomes.

Dogs have 39 pairs of Chromosomes. You always get one side of the pair from the Sire and one from the Dam. Their basically tiny technical drawings for the cells to make the dog. So if both Chromosomes say black fur, you get black fur etc. One of the genes is usually more dominant than the other within most breeds (things like pointed ears in GSD's) things like this will show through in most of the pups.

By line breeding or in-breeding, your restricting the amount of different Genes joining the pool so you start to restrict the amount of variances in the pups. the more in-bred the pups the more alike most of them will become.

Brother and sister breeding's can still throw completely different dogs as they might of got completely different chromosomes from their parents. ie. Bitch got 10, 01 from the breeding and the Dog got 01,10 form the breeding. This might mean the Bitch had long hair and the dog, short hair... so the pups from this mating will still have a 50-50 chance of having long hair (unless one of the Genes is Dominant, then most will have one variance and a few will have the other)

By line breeding you would breed short hair dog to short hair bitch to reduce the chance of long hair pups. You'll always get whats called throw-backs to previous Grand parents etc so very occasionally a pup will be born with long hair.

It's the same with certain working abilities, Like stamina, breed two dogs with good Stamina then you increase the chance of the pups having Stamina but you don't remove completely the chance a pup can not have stamina of it's siblings.

Tha'ts how some dogs can be crap workers but throw great working pups. The dog's and Bitch's Genes happen to throw towards the decent side as opposed to the crap side of the Gene pool.

 

And yes I am pissed!!

theres a topic on genral talk called G.O.D Get over there mate.

[the big chief 3,099]

I have been told by many of dog men it 50/50 with bitches and with dogs they can throw back to sire or dam but imho that's bollox this is just my opinion mind my pups have thrown sire and dam but my bitch has gone totally different sire is brindled dam is black so where as the chocolate come from ?? To my knowledge the bull terrier in mine was that colour so that would be from the grand parents to be honest i don't care as long as they come from good working dogs what mine have.

[bird 9,873]

Just because they look like the sire or dam in looks re colour or shape it don't mean they will have the said characteristics of them also

Or the same speed or stamina

Turning ability or drive and determination

Toughness

Train ability ect ect

 

They might throw back to great great great grandparents or have a mixture of them all. ?

 

It's not a exact science.

fair point max , with my young dog Buck, he deff picked his size+drive from razzmatazz (greyhound), but his strength+stamina I think come from his dam gsd , as gsd are naturally very powerful dogs with great stamina.So I think its near enough got his genes from both parents

[two crows 3,342]

when you cross a saluki with a greyhound (both gen pure) you get good mix but you don't get feathering or black and tan but all other colours possible. yet cross two first crosses together and black and tan and feathering comes through and litters can contain smooth and feathered pups and all colours. Ime no expert but I have bred first crosses a few times and I always think the purer parent will have most influence( hope this ads to the confusion.)

[jack68 628]

when you cross a saluki with a greyhound (both gen pure) you get good mix but you don't get feathering or black and tan but all other colours possible. yet cross two first crosses together and black and tan and feathering comes through and litters can contain smooth and feathered pups and all colours. Ime no expert but I have bred first crosses a few times and I always think the purer parent will have most influence( hope this ads to the confusion.)

 

I with you on to pure crosses being put together getting more of a 50/50 split but as I say once you start putting more crosses into the mix then % go out the window. That's when putting the best to the best comes into play with lurcher breeding you hope to cut down on litter wastage as you can not polish a turd can you..

[jack68 628]

Max if you breed two greyhounds together you get greyhounds but if you breed a greyhound to a collie you get half greyhound half collie that's as I see it a 50/50 split, the greyhound man said if you put two greyhounds together the dam gives you a higher % in the makeup of the pups. I am not a generic expert I just going of what a breeder of racing greyhounds said to me, is it not also true that in the greyhound game good racing britches that have pups a high % of the bitch pups do not race but go on to be just brood britches only...atb

[whitefeet4190 1,725]

Well said two crows, just out of intrest how did u decide on ur name ?

[Neal 1,866]

The reason the pure parent is most likely to have a greater influence is because it's more likely to be prepotent by having related ancestors (fairly close).

[malc1 544]

I allways go on the bitch

[jack68 628]

Max it's good to have a debate about what lads think about running dogs without getting personal and this has been a good topic.. atb

[two crows 3,342]

whitefeet when I was keepering on a commercial partridge shoot the boss (dead now god rest him) was talking to me at my truck when two crows landed in an oak tree about 100 yds behind him sso I said keep still poked the 17 through the window and shot one of them as he turned the other one fell off its branch as well god knows how but I did two for one and he called me two crows. regards two crows