God

[paulus 26]

 

 

Jesus he knows me

and he knows im right, ive been talking to Jesus all my life..................................

And on that bombshell.........

 

Goodnight

 

[Tiercel 6,986]

In reality there should only be one "God" our sun as without that there would not be life on earth. It does make me wonder how many planets are the right distance from their mother star to create the same conditions we have on earth? I also think about the worms that live in sulphur outlets at the bottom of the ocean and think does all life need the same conditions we enjoy?

 

TC

[delswal 3,819]

 

Seeker, I can't watch the vid on this PC but I'm guessing it's essentially the anthropic principle? How the physical universe is finely tuned to allow life to exist? From the value of the Plank constant to the environmental requirements of the Earth...

 

The environmental requirements part can pretty simply be explained by the vast size of space, statistically it seems unlikely until you comprehend the problem on a universal level... Possibly a more interesting conclusion for a theist comes from analysing the Drake equation, which with best estimates suggests there should be far more intelligent life visible to us than there is...

 

The finely tuned physical laws problem can be answered by a Many Worlds Theory or a Cyclic Universe Theory. Far from suggesting the existence of God, to me it suggests one of these theories to be true. If we consider that there are either many Universes parallel to ours or that there is only one Universe but it is born and dies in a continuous cycle then we are back to statistics and given a great enough number eventually there will be one where everything is perfect for life. In one where everything is not just perfect, we wouldn't be having this conversation and so the low odds of us existing will always appear 'special' when in actual fact it's just a simple logic and play on statistics.

 

There's what I consider a more rational explanation... put your faith in whatever you see fit.

Whatever they are called they seemed pretty unlikely odds to me, I'm an easy soul I need things to be explained in a way I can understand them, he explains the odds of life just "being" are equivalent to throwing a dart 100 miles up from the earth and hitting a target the size of an atom. Now that I can picture!

 

Strange how the scientist community would rather accept the possibility of multiple worlds (I assume you mean by this parallel universes etc) rather than belief in god.

 

Assuming the followers of the bible believe in the content of the bible, which I don't doubt for a minute. What are your views and interpretations of these passages from the bible.

 

Ezekiel 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the North, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 1:5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. 1:6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. 1:7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. 1:8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. 1:9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. 1:11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. 1:12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

Zechariah 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

 

Now these ancestors of ours were not influenced or had their imagination stretched by star trek, star-gate or any other sf-fi t .v programmes of today so what do you creationists make of these comments, are they talking of witnessing extra terrestrial activity ? genuine question as these extracts are from the bible.

 

Oh and this is not me knocking your faith or beliefs, I am just interested in your translation of this.

[gnasher16 30,144]

Gnash, it's only my opinion on what I see but it's an opinion I came to by myself without being spoon fed it by other atheists. So I'll try to answer your questions based on my own thinking...

 

Faith in a god or gods probably doesn't mean the same to every person, I'd agree, but when I say faith I'm trying to draw down to the fundamentals of it. At it's most simple it's the belief in something in the absence of clear scientific evidence. But the belief is there nonetheless because it feels right. I see that simple mechanism in times of hardship has been very beneficial to mankind, as emotional creatures it's allowed us to defy the odds when the odds say we're f****d. It makes sense to me as an evolutionary mechanism for survival and I see it all the time in us. How many people have 'found god' at such times?

 

Now pondering along those lines I see how natural it would be for relatively primitive cultures to associate that with their various religions and gods that they have developed to explain the world around them. I really do just see faith as part of our psychology, an evolved part, to the benefit of our survival and religion a very natural product of that faith mechanism.

 

I think people that have chosen religion have done what makes sense to them. Not a favour for a favour generally. I think there is a huge amount of comfort in it, your faith isn't hopeless like mine, you have a god looking out for you, that's surely comforting.

 

When I said about god tying it up nicely I meant that religion gives answers to a lot of the big questions and I'd say to most of us humans, knowing is a lot more comforting than not knowing. This thread is testament to that. I want answers, but god doesn't make sense to me and if I'm honest there being so much unknown is exciting, perhaps in the same way that exploring strange lands is exciting, you're nerves would be much happier sat on the couch in the safety of your home watching the discovery channel but that ain't quite living is it?

 

I think people that bend and twist science are fools, but simply having faith in a greater being doesn't make someone a fool. They're seeing the world through their own senses and simply have faith in something different to me... I have given my own explanation for that but who really cares, it's just one mans opinion on the world around him...

 

Damn good post that chief.....and being as how you know im a thick f****r its good of you to talk in a language i understand so much appreciated

 

Only bit i didnt quite grasp or if i did i couldnt really get my nut round it....you say " At its most simple its the belief in something in the absence of clear scientific evidence ".

 

So with much of our beginnings having no clear scientific evidence,would you accept that you too have a " faith " in science because it feels right as you put it ?.....as in faith that because science proved a,b,c,d,e correct it will more than likely prove f correct as well.......and if so is that any different to the " faith " a christian has.

 

Im wondering if in the same way a person can have faith without necessarily believing in God can a person also have the same regards science/evolution if that makes sense

Edited November 19, 2014 by gnasher16

[Truther 1,579]

"Quick question Fraz, brief answer will do mate. Did god flood the earth and kill every human apart from Noah and his family? And if so did they produce all the people alive today, no matter what race? "

 

I asked that yesterday, no answer so i looked it up...........Apparently the bible says (genesis 7:21 and 9:1) god did flood all the earth, and did kill all life barring what was on the ark, and all humans are descended from Noah and his sons and their wives I don't know the dates of the supposed flood? but less than 6,000 years if you think the earth is only 6,000 years old i'm assuming? So in a few thousand years Noah's family repopulated the entire earth with mankind, such diverse people as japanese and Negro, Pygmies, and all in the blink of an eye, not only that these handful of people must have carried all the genetic faults of the human race, strange choice to pick people so afflicted to repopulate the whole of mankind? Apparently it says the highest mountain was "at least 20 feet below the water" yet older civilisations have no record of it? I bet if you do the maths its impossible for so few to produce so many even given many thousands of years, complete rubbish

 

I've already said if a creator made the big bang happen that's one thing, personally i don't believe that, i just concede the point, we'll never know one way or the other, but the drivel in the religious texts (all of them) is beyond stupid.

[delswal 3,819]

"Quick question Fraz, brief answer will do mate. Did god flood the earth and kill every human apart from Noah and his family? And if so did they produce all the people alive today, no matter what race? "

 

I asked that yesterday, no answer so i looked it up...........Apparently the bible says (genesis 7:21 and 9:1) god did flood all the earth, and did kill all life barring what was on the ark, and all humans are descended from Noah and his sons and their wives I don't know the dates of the supposed flood? but less than 6,000 years if you think the earth is only 6,000 years old i'm assuming? So in a few thousand years Noah's family repopulated the entire earth with mankind, such diverse people as japanese and Negro, Pygmies, and all in the blink of an eye, not only that these handful of people must have carried all the genetic faults of the human race, strange choice to pick people so afflicted to repopulate the whole of mankind? Apparently it says the highest mountain was "at least 20 feet below the water" yet older civilisations have no record of it? I bet if you do the maths its impossible for so few to produce so many even given many thousands of years, complete rubbish

 

I've already said if a creator made the big bang happen that's one thing, personally i don't believe that, i just concede the point, we'll never know one way or the other, but the drivel in the religious texts (all of them) is beyond stupid.

If you google your question of, could two populate the earth to its current population the answer is yes, not that I personally believe it happened but the maths say yes

[Truther 1,579]

 

 

Seeker, I can't watch the vid on this PC but I'm guessing it's essentially the anthropic principle? How the physical universe is finely tuned to allow life to exist? From the value of the Plank constant to the environmental requirements of the Earth...

 

The environmental requirements part can pretty simply be explained by the vast size of space, statistically it seems unlikely until you comprehend the problem on a universal level... Possibly a more interesting conclusion for a theist comes from analysing the Drake equation, which with best estimates suggests there should be far more intelligent life visible to us than there is...

 

The finely tuned physical laws problem can be answered by a Many Worlds Theory or a Cyclic Universe Theory. Far from suggesting the existence of God, to me it suggests one of these theories to be true. If we consider that there are either many Universes parallel to ours or that there is only one Universe but it is born and dies in a continuous cycle then we are back to statistics and given a great enough number eventually there will be one where everything is perfect for life. In one where everything is not just perfect, we wouldn't be having this conversation and so the low odds of us existing will always appear 'special' when in actual fact it's just a simple logic and play on statistics.

 

There's what I consider a more rational explanation... put your faith in whatever you see fit.

Whatever they are called they seemed pretty unlikely odds to me, I'm an easy soul I need things to be explained in a way I can understand them, he explains the odds of life just "being" are equivalent to throwing a dart 100 miles up from the earth and hitting a target the size of an atom. Now that I can picture!

 

Strange how the scientist community would rather accept the possibility of multiple worlds (I assume you mean by this parallel universes etc) rather than belief in god.

 

Assuming the followers of the bible believe in the content of the bible, which I don't doubt for a minute. What are your views and interpretations of these passages from the bible.

 

Ezekiel 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the North, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 1:5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. 1:6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. 1:7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. 1:8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. 1:9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. 1:11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. 1:12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

Zechariah 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

 

Now these ancestors of ours were not influenced or had their imagination stretched by star trek, star-gate or any other sf-fi t .v programmes of today so what do you creationists make of these comments, are they talking of witnessing extra terrestrial activity ? genuine question as these extracts are from the bible.

 

Oh and this is not me knocking your faith or beliefs, I am just interested in your translation of this.

 

 

I brought Ezekiel up a while back mate, and its a good point about these people not being influenced by modern technology, or sci-fi stuff, Ezekiel also said "it made a noise like great waters" obviously he was describing an engine noise, which begs the question "why would god need an engine" There's a good few examples of spacecraft and spacemen in lots of old writings/drawings, they can't all have been on the mushrooms surely?

 

The funny thing is, lots of things regarded as "miracles" and used by believers to convince us these things are from a higher power are possible today, Adams rib, genetic engineering, flying, virgin birth, artificial insemination, we can even clone existing animals now, in all honesty i think the answer to our existance is in the bible, along with a lot of man made rubbish, and to me the logical answer is an advanced race bringing us about, someone would be regarded as a god if they did that, no doubt about it.

[Born Hunter 17,775]

 

Gnash, it's only my opinion on what I see but it's an opinion I came to by myself without being spoon fed it by other atheists. So I'll try to answer your questions based on my own thinking...

 

Faith in a god or gods probably doesn't mean the same to every person, I'd agree, but when I say faith I'm trying to draw down to the fundamentals of it. At it's most simple it's the belief in something in the absence of clear scientific evidence. But the belief is there nonetheless because it feels right. I see that simple mechanism in times of hardship has been very beneficial to mankind, as emotional creatures it's allowed us to defy the odds when the odds say we're f****d. It makes sense to me as an evolutionary mechanism for survival and I see it all the time in us. How many people have 'found god' at such times?

 

Now pondering along those lines I see how natural it would be for relatively primitive cultures to associate that with their various religions and gods that they have developed to explain the world around them. I really do just see faith as part of our psychology, an evolved part, to the benefit of our survival and religion a very natural product of that faith mechanism.

 

I think people that have chosen religion have done what makes sense to them. Not a favour for a favour generally. I think there is a huge amount of comfort in it, your faith isn't hopeless like mine, you have a god looking out for you, that's surely comforting.

 

When I said about god tying it up nicely I meant that religion gives answers to a lot of the big questions and I'd say to most of us humans, knowing is a lot more comforting than not knowing. This thread is testament to that. I want answers, but god doesn't make sense to me and if I'm honest there being so much unknown is exciting, perhaps in the same way that exploring strange lands is exciting, you're nerves would be much happier sat on the couch in the safety of your home watching the discovery channel but that ain't quite living is it?

 

I think people that bend and twist science are fools, but simply having faith in a greater being doesn't make someone a fool. They're seeing the world through their own senses and simply have faith in something different to me... I have given my own explanation for that but who really cares, it's just one mans opinion on the world around him...

 

Damn good post that chief.....and being as how you know im a thick f****r its good of you to talk in a language i understand so much appreciated

 

Only bit i didnt quite grasp or if i did i couldnt really get my nut round it....you say " At its most simple its the belief in something in the absence of clear scientific evidence ".

 

So with much of our beginnings having no clear scientific evidence,would you accept that you too have a " faith " in science because it feels right as you put it ?.....as in faith that because science proved a,b,c,d,e correct it will more than likely prove f correct as well.......and if so is that any different to the " faith " a christian has.

 

Im wondering if in the same way a person can have faith without necessarily believing in God can a person also have the same regards science/evolution if that makes sense

Very simply, I'd say yes you are right in that I have faith in science. I might perhaps re word it to say I have trust in science as the more something proves itself the less faith it requires and the more trust it receives.

 

But I suppose you could say the same about God. Though to my view more and more in the world that we used to explain with god gets explained by science so i would personally find my trust dropping and faith having to increase if I believed in god.

 

Bottom line, however I want to word it, we all see the world through our own eyes and apply whatever logic we have to choose our path to walk... unless that path has been unequivocally proven true, there is a degree of faith required in taking it.

[Truther 1,579]

 

"Quick question Fraz, brief answer will do mate. Did god flood the earth and kill every human apart from Noah and his family? And if so did they produce all the people alive today, no matter what race? "

 

I asked that yesterday, no answer so i looked it up...........Apparently the bible says (genesis 7:21 and 9:1) god did flood all the earth, and did kill all life barring what was on the ark, and all humans are descended from Noah and his sons and their wives I don't know the dates of the supposed flood? but less than 6,000 years if you think the earth is only 6,000 years old i'm assuming? So in a few thousand years Noah's family repopulated the entire earth with mankind, such diverse people as japanese and Negro, Pygmies, and all in the blink of an eye, not only that these handful of people must have carried all the genetic faults of the human race, strange choice to pick people so afflicted to repopulate the whole of mankind? Apparently it says the highest mountain was "at least 20 feet below the water" yet older civilisations have no record of it? I bet if you do the maths its impossible for so few to produce so many even given many thousands of years, complete rubbish

 

I've already said if a creator made the big bang happen that's one thing, personally i don't believe that, i just concede the point, we'll never know one way or the other, but the drivel in the religious texts (all of them) is beyond stupid.

If you google your question of, could two populate the earth to its current population the answer is yes, not that I personally believe it happened but the maths say yes

 

 

Strictly speaking "maths" given enough time it is possible, that's pretty obvious, but in less than 6,000 years? and such diverse people ?

[paulus 26]

 

 

"Quick question Fraz, brief answer will do mate. Did god flood the earth and kill every human apart from Noah and his family? And if so did they produce all the people alive today, no matter what race? "

 

I asked that yesterday, no answer so i looked it up...........Apparently the bible says (genesis 7:21 and 9:1) god did flood all the earth, and did kill all life barring what was on the ark, and all humans are descended from Noah and his sons and their wives I don't know the dates of the supposed flood? but less than 6,000 years if you think the earth is only 6,000 years old i'm assuming? So in a few thousand years Noah's family repopulated the entire earth with mankind, such diverse people as japanese and Negro, Pygmies, and all in the blink of an eye, not only that these handful of people must have carried all the genetic faults of the human race, strange choice to pick people so afflicted to repopulate the whole of mankind? Apparently it says the highest mountain was "at least 20 feet below the water" yet older civilisations have no record of it? I bet if you do the maths its impossible for so few to produce so many even given many thousands of years, complete rubbish

 

I've already said if a creator made the big bang happen that's one thing, personally i don't believe that, i just concede the point, we'll never know one way or the other, but the drivel in the religious texts (all of them) is beyond stupid.

If you google your question of, could two populate the earth to its current population the answer is yes, not that I personally believe it happened but the maths say yes

 

 

Strictly speaking "maths" given enough time it is possible, that's pretty obvious, but in less than 6,000 years? and such diverse people ?

 

the maths prove that space can be folded but the reality is, at this point in time we have not discovered a way to do it. maths is one thing but the science of achieving it is another the same with the population hypothesis

[gnasher16 30,144]

 

 

Gnash, it's only my opinion on what I see but it's an opinion I came to by myself without being spoon fed it by other atheists. So I'll try to answer your questions based on my own thinking...

 

Faith in a god or gods probably doesn't mean the same to every person, I'd agree, but when I say faith I'm trying to draw down to the fundamentals of it. At it's most simple it's the belief in something in the absence of clear scientific evidence. But the belief is there nonetheless because it feels right. I see that simple mechanism in times of hardship has been very beneficial to mankind, as emotional creatures it's allowed us to defy the odds when the odds say we're f****d. It makes sense to me as an evolutionary mechanism for survival and I see it all the time in us. How many people have 'found god' at such times?

 

Now pondering along those lines I see how natural it would be for relatively primitive cultures to associate that with their various religions and gods that they have developed to explain the world around them. I really do just see faith as part of our psychology, an evolved part, to the benefit of our survival and religion a very natural product of that faith mechanism.

 

I think people that have chosen religion have done what makes sense to them. Not a favour for a favour generally. I think there is a huge amount of comfort in it, your faith isn't hopeless like mine, you have a god looking out for you, that's surely comforting.

 

When I said about god tying it up nicely I meant that religion gives answers to a lot of the big questions and I'd say to most of us humans, knowing is a lot more comforting than not knowing. This thread is testament to that. I want answers, but god doesn't make sense to me and if I'm honest there being so much unknown is exciting, perhaps in the same way that exploring strange lands is exciting, you're nerves would be much happier sat on the couch in the safety of your home watching the discovery channel but that ain't quite living is it?

 

I think people that bend and twist science are fools, but simply having faith in a greater being doesn't make someone a fool. They're seeing the world through their own senses and simply have faith in something different to me... I have given my own explanation for that but who really cares, it's just one mans opinion on the world around him...

Damn good post that chief.....and being as how you know im a thick f****r its good of you to talk in a language i understand so much appreciated

 

Only bit i didnt quite grasp or if i did i couldnt really get my nut round it....you say " At its most simple its the belief in something in the absence of clear scientific evidence ".

 

So with much of our beginnings having no clear scientific evidence,would you accept that you too have a " faith " in science because it feels right as you put it ?.....as in faith that because science proved a,b,c,d,e correct it will more than likely prove f correct as well.......and if so is that any different to the " faith " a christian has.

 

Im wondering if in the same way a person can have faith without necessarily believing in God can a person also have the same regards science/evolution if that makes sense

Very simply, I'd say yes you are right in that I have faith in science. I might perhaps re word it to say I have trust in science as the more something proves itself the less faith it requires and the more trust it receives.

 

But I suppose you could say the same about God. Though to my view more and more in the world that we used to explain with god gets explained by science so i would personally find my trust dropping and faith having to increase if I believed in god.

 

Bottom line, however I want to word it, we all see the world through our own eyes and apply whatever logic we have to choose our path to walk... unless that path has been unequivocally proven true, there is a degree of faith required in taking it.

 

 

Sounds logical

[Tiercel 6,986]

At one time I did think that it was possible that we had been visited by people from outer space. Now I don't think so, reason being, if visitors from outer space had the technology to get here, that would point to a far superior knowledge base. If they then, as some believe, bred with the most humanoid animals on earth. Should there have been a bigger jump in human comprehension, should we have seen almost modern day understanding even back then. As they would have been able to travel intergalactic to get here.

 

Makes sense to me but I have had a few.

 

TC

[oneredtrim 148]

There are other possibilities other than periodic visits from almond heads, folk will also go into great detail when they tell you about the ghost they've seen (imagined) and so will others secretly crapping themselves just pre a major operation/bang, so much so they'll go into great detail about thier out of body trip/viewing themselves on the operation table...i think the boffs actually documented the corridoor in the brain a certain liquid shot down cause it thought it was getting ready for the big shut down....With that in mind the alien craic is not such an outrageous stretch.

 

Getting back to the earlier poster and with regard to us being not so much better than animals because of clever fuckers being able to talk in ten tongues...the ten tongue herberts will q up again for poison, they'll pay for it...something knocks an animal rotten it's a once bitten game. Millionaire humans kill themselves...a lot cause they've not sorted thier wants and thier needs out..a platypussy floating round wherever, in and out of the sun, dont need to know how to light a fire and you know what they say the mother of all invention is...

 

 

Any monkeys native to Canada?

[WILF 47,097]

Someone take his crack pipe away please !!!

[The Seeker 3,048]