God

[mushroom 13,142]

Technically cats and dogs did share a common ancestor...... Millions of years ago mind

Edited November 18, 2014 by mushroom

[Tozer 385]

Quick question Fraz, brief answer will do mate. Did god flood the earth and kill every human apart from Noah and his family? And if so did they produce all the people alive today, no matter what race?

 

Genghis Khan did a good job of this I believe,

[Tozer 385]

right beer is done in the house, off to the pub. Been good chewing the cud.

[Born Hunter 17,783]

Tozer, where the f**k were you 100 pages ago! LOL

 

You're well read on evolutionary biology.

[Tozer 385]

Not well read half cut with the internet at my finger tips.

 

To the god debate; maybe God set in motion the longest winded series of events ever known to create a creature in his own image. Then, when the time was right and we needed guidance, provided us with a scripture to help us along the right path.

 

Just saying

[oneredtrim 148]

 

 

 

was God a human being? i have asked that question at least twice, my reasoning is, we were made in his image and his son was a human being and fraz Egypt has the longest recorded history but there is no mention of a world wide flood

Ans: IMO No god isn't a human being

then please explain how we can be an image of him. its a question i have never had a satisfactory answer to

 

Let me ask you a question if we are ALL a product of evolution why is no other creature out of the million or so species on thus planet able to communicate. NOT through barks, grunts or squeals but to hold a rational conversation. You would think out of all the species over the last 400 million years at least one would have made first base, or are we different in some way? Just a thought..

 

 

Folk have studied the whale or two whales having a cheek to cheek natter only for one of them to slope off sometimes (plenty) to another ocean and have the same cheek to cheek with another whale who immediatly having received the message make thier way into the message senders ocean for a leg over, leaving the runner to get on with his business...not the queens english granted but very rational in fete accompli kinda way.

 

Just a thought on them non fire lighting monkeys...which variant of monkey was born in Greenland?

 

The platypussy...is it still a mammal, nearly a unique one, last time i looked they'd pretty much nailed it's lineage back to the reptile mob, which was a lot longer ago than 6k yrs.

[gnasher16 30,217]

 

 

That is what I am getting at, we have affected breeds, we haven't taken them far enough yet to make a species, but they are a classic example of a breed. Darwin uses them to show how we can genetically change an animal so massively you woudn't recognise it, but still they are the same.

 

It takes something a lot longer to make it a species, something that because it is longer than a human generation many people can't comprehend.

 

Being as how we,re led to believe human beings have been around for over a million years is it not about time we evolved into something else if Darwins change of species theory is to be believed.........or are we the ultimate living being and theres nothing to top us in which case can something that does not evolve continue to exist ?......ie, if we,re no longer evolving are we going extinct ?

[The Seeker 3,048]

 

 

 

 

Not one that would satisfy you. Plenty that satisfy biologists though...

not all of them-its only a theory..no im not a creationist..id say modern livestock and crops are a good example of evolution(but they are still cows or spuds or pigs)..theres no proof of one species evolving into something differnt.

But there is, there is masses of it. You just don't want to see it. You can cross and Aylesbury with a mallard, a dog with a wolf, you can't cross a fox with a dog. It takes a long time of divergence and a chance successful genetic change to make it so species cannot interbreed.

"You can cross and Aylesbury with a mallard" But it remains a duck

"dog with a wolf, you can't cross a fox with a dog" But it remains a canine

 

No offence but this is what I mean by not understanding and reading the subject. Darwin spoke of a change of SPECIES not a development of a breed.

 

Anyway I will leave you guys to it

 

 

It takes something a lot longer to make it a species, something that because it is longer than a human generation many people can't comprehend.

 

 

What so is 400 million years not long enough then, how long will it take??

[gnasher16 30,217]

I think when people say "it's a coping mechanism", they're explanation/theory is perhaps a bit misunderstood.... or at least not fully explained.

 

My opinion is that faith is a coping mechanism, theism is an extrapolation of faith which very satisfactorily answers many more of the Universes unknowns. We all have faith, even us atheists, it's part of being human. Faith is simply belief in the absence of evidence, it's belief against probability..... it's absolutely necessary to our survival and in difficult situations it's people that have faith that they'll come good that will stand the best chance of actually coming out in one piece. They fight on when there is no hope because something inside them tells them everything will be alright. Some people associate that with a higher being and others, more rationally associate it with an evolved mechanism of our psychology. But we ALL have faith in us!

 

Religion, or more generally theism, is just, imo, a natural progression from that. In a world with so many questions and so much unknown God ties it all up quite nicely...

 

So this "coping mechanism" theory isn't unique to theists, it doesn't make anybody weak or stupid! No doubt some people follow religion through their own weaknesses and some reject it through weakness. I'd actually say they are rejecting truth through weakness but whatever. Nonetheless, we are all human and whether you are a theist or an atheist it doesn't make you weak or strong of mind simply based on that alone. Weakness is hiding from the truth because it scares you.

Interesting.....bit over my head but what i did understand was interesting.......im not sure i agree that " faith " necessarily means the same to every person,i might say i have faith in God but does that necessarily mean i want anything from him ? re you saying " they,ll come good ".............can somebody not have faith because it simply makes sense or does it have to be a favour for a favour exchange type of thing.....as for " God ties it all up nicely ".....if that were the case folk like me who have a certain amount of belief would stop looking for answers surely ?

 

Im sure you are right about folk who believe in God because they are too weak to search for truth.....likewise im sure theres non believers who are too weak to search for truth also....being scared of the truth could be my truth or your truth surely.......it just seems this whole " coping mechanism " thing that non believers come out with is one of these silly " new phrases " folk like to use without any real logic they just say it in a " im down with the kids " kind of way ......a bit like the way Mushroom keeps calling people " Tards " every 5 minutes

[The Seeker 3,048]

They can but it takes a lot of reading, the pope himself acknowledged this, I have said it in all my posts, evolution does not remove religion. show's a path.

 

Religion is there to guide people to do right, the ten commandments. don't cheat, steal, murder or generally be a d*ck, the only point you are focussing on is the 'made in his own image'.

 

Your problem is thinking you are more important than the chimp, dog, cat or amoeba. We are all the same.

 

I did say I was leaving this topic BUT....Sorry this is where we disagree I never said or read in any post anyone say we are more important that another species, my point is we are so far advanced, so far removed from any other species on this planet that we are almost not of this world. Yes we need oxygen and food and all the rest of the qualities that fall into "Maslows Heirachy of needs theory" BUT and it is a big BUT no other lving creature comes close to humanity. Just stop for one moment and think about humans compared to animals, think about art, music, science, mathematics, medicine, flight, farming, culture everything around us.

Plucked from the air, look at a construction such as the humber bridge for example how long would it take, how many more millions of years to wait for another creature ANY creature to even have the concept let alone produce something of that magnitude and thats a drop in the ocean compared to most of humanities acheivements.

 

What other creature can you name that solves a problem without trial and error? Wildlife is full of glorious animals creating ways to catch prey or defend themselves but humanity is the only species that has the ability to look at a problem and solve it prior to trial and error.

 

Its the most relevant question to address but one that is overlooked time and time again as we become embroiled on discussions about what was written word for word in the bible.

 

I said it before this was the start for me which lead onto a path questions and more learning,

 

I know one thing you aint going to change your opinion on a few paragraphs you read on the Hunting Life but at least question these things, dont only listen to the scientists, they have their place but they are as flawed as the rest of us, look and learn, and if your path takes you full circle and you still believe that there is nothing after it all then what have you lost? Nothing. Just dont discount the reasoning of faith because its not cool to believe in God (been there done that) . There could be an alternative and Its too important for that but only you can decide.

Im no different to most people, I like a good drink on a weekend, I work hard to support my family, swear more than I should, used to smoke like a chimney before I quit the fags, got a wife and kids and all the rest of the trimmings that come with it, love to hunt and fish and be wth the dog but I just think differently about our ending thats all. My faith helps me in my daily life, it is not a crutch I dont need to turn to it because of some abscence in my life on the contrary I couldnt be happier but it makes me a better person and that can ony be a good thing, right?.

 

[paulus 26]

seeker your answer to my question is not an answer, its a cop out mate, the question in my opinion is fundamental to the creation v evolution question, it clearly states he made us in his own image, its not ambiguous, its not cryptic, its clear as a bell, so that points in the direction he to was a human, the son of god a cross between a god and a human. yet he was as human as you and me according to the book, he lived and died the same as me and you, i am not religious but if i was i would be wondering how a human did all these things but then again the book was written by humans and if it had said he made us randomly the same as all the other creatures then we wouldn't be special and religion would be in a reel mess

[The Seeker 3,048]

seeker your answer to my question is not an answer, its a cop out mate, the question in my opinion is fundamental to the creation v evolution question, it clearly states he made us in his own image, its not ambiguous, its not cryptic, its clear as a bell, so that points in the direction he to was a human, the son of god a cross between a god and a human. yet he was as human as you and me according to the book, he lived and died the same as me and you, i am not religious but if i was i would be wondering how a human did all these things but then again the book was written by humans and if it had said he made us randomly the same as all the other creatures then we wouldn't be special and religion would be in a reel mess

 

Yes it is an answer, it is my answer not a cop out, how you choose to interpret this passage is up to you.

 

The two lines you wish to debate are in the first book Genesis, what it actually says is

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

 

So to take this literally are we saying that he created us as hermaphrodites? Of course not its reference to being created as perfect and immortal which Adam and Eve were (getting deep now) before they were cast out of Eden

 

Your question is confusing as it refers to two parts, Jesus was a man who did live and die as we all will, he was the son of God as in the father the son and the Holy Spirit. And no, he wasn't a father that walked his son Jesus to school and picked him up at 3.15, to me it means he is unified, the trinity.

 

ATB

[paulus 26]

but does it not also say that eve was created from a rib of Adam inferring that god was male and in his image would make him a human male ?

if this is the case then Jesus would have indeed been the son of god in the literal sense, the offspring of a human

[kevin kiely 66]

go into BIBLE GATEWAY yee can look up any part to check replies and theres a word search

[kevin kiely 66]

but does it not also say that eve was created from a rib of Adam inferring that god was male and in his image would make him a human male ?

if this is the case then Jesus would have indeed been the son of god in the literal sense, the offspring of a human

jesus was there before adam but was born into the flesh through the line of adam and eve