Born Hunter 17,763 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Gnasher, I really don't get where you are going with this, it's like you think there needs to be a winner. There can never be a winner, science and faith are polar opposites. Science evidence based belief, faith by definition is belief in the absence of evidence. If God showed himself to us it would'nt require any faith to believe in him would it? You want to have an argument of logic on a topic that is illogical.... There's never going to be this "haha we win" moment in this argument. It's completely pointless. I only entered this thread in anger, so to speak, to talk about science. I'm not out to disprove god, it's impossible. God doesn't ever enter my thoughts because there is nothing at all other than peoples 'faith' as evidence of existence and as we have discussed faith is belief in the absence of evidence. I can't really make my logic for my beliefs any simpler, if I don't know how something works I son't just invent a supernatural cause, I work through steps of logic untill I have achieved a scientific answer based on observations and mathematics. If that takes time, then so be it........ That's the persuit of truth. Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Ok my last comment on here . Here is how I seen it after reading the book (The Bible) The man at the centre of this here topic Jesus himself, nothing more than an early illusionist / conman / charlatan, you choose which.So here he his poor old Jesus the carpenter knocking up tables chairs and wheels for carts and the odd stable door bored out of his tits, so he recruits all his pals, all twelve of them ( the so called disciples) and they ya go he has a little firm of his own. Old Jesus you see had a good start in life to be a conman after all his own mother ran the biggest blag of all time, and poor old Joseph well as we know he fell hook line and sinker for it. So good old Jesus sorts out his crew, first you play the cripple , you play the blind man, the rest of you stand by as witnesses so when they touch my robe the cure begins. Never took Jesus long to get a good thing going. Then him and his little crew get an invite to a wedding were with the slight of hand turn water to wine, pretty soon his reputation is spreading like wildfire. But now the romans have cottoned on to his little game, but are struggling to find him, so what do the romans do ? pull Judas in for a few questions plus a few clips round the lug and a few gold coins in back pocket, quick as a flash he sticks his pal Jesus right in it. Then the Romans decide to make an example of him as we all know how, but ones things for sure by the time the romans did their work nobody ran them scams for a long time after. might sound far fetched but to me it sounds more believable than the old book itself ………….just saying like……topic closed for me If i picked up a book that was a joke from page 1......i certainly wouldnt of made it much past page 5.......and you read the entire thing ! Link to post Share on other sites
BigBrianBorou 35 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 aye closed for you mate because you never read it,fact,your using the bible to help prove your point but on other hand its to disprove the bible,alot of sense coming from you mate Link to post Share on other sites
delswal 3,819 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Ok my last comment on here . Here is how I seen it after reading the book (The Bible) The man at the centre of this here topic Jesus himself, nothing more than an early illusionist / conman / charlatan, you choose which.So here he his poor old Jesus the carpenter knocking up tables chairs and wheels for carts and the odd stable door bored out of his tits, so he recruits all his pals, all twelve of them ( the so called disciples) and they ya go he has a little firm of his own. Old Jesus you see had a good start in life to be a conman after all his own mother ran the biggest blag of all time, and poor old Joseph well as we know he fell hook line and sinker for it. So good old Jesus sorts out his crew, first you play the cripple , you play the blind man, the rest of you stand by as witnesses so when they touch my robe the cure begins. Never took Jesus long to get a good thing going. Then him and his little crew get an invite to a wedding were with the slight of hand turn water to wine, pretty soon his reputation is spreading like wildfire. But now the romans have cottoned on to his little game, but are struggling to find him, so what do the romans do ? pull Judas in for a few questions plus a few clips round the lug and a few gold coins in back pocket, quick as a flash he sticks his pal Jesus right in it. Then the Romans decide to make an example of him as we all know how, but ones things for sure by the time the romans did their work nobody ran them scams for a long time after. might sound far fetched but to me it sounds more believable than the old book itself ………….just saying like……topic closed for me If i picked up a book that was a joke from page 1......i certainly wouldnt of made it much past page 5.......and you read the entire thing ! i had 18 months of spare time on my hands and a quiet peaceful room to myself for 23 hrs a day……so i thought what the hell lets see what its all about Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,811 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) So just to be clear, we are saying that the most believable scenario is that 2000 years ago, some random goat herder in his dress and sandals managed to dream up the biggest con trick in all of history, write a book that has never been bettered by any author.....ever !! Spread this story throughout the civilised world in times when you travel everywhere by donkey 2000 years prior to there being any phones, internet, postcards etc Yep, I can see now that it's obvious !! Oh and by the way, he was clever enough to do all this but he wasn't clever enough not to get himself nailed to a plank of wood ?? Edited August 16, 2014 by WILF 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Gnasher, I really don't get where you are going with this, it's like you think there needs to be a winner. There can never be a winner, science and faith are polar opposites. Science evidence based belief, faith by definition is belief in the absence of evidence. If God showed himself to us it would'nt require any faith to believe in him would it? You want to have an argument of logic on a topic that is illogical.... There's never going to be this "haha we win" moment in this argument. It's completely pointless. I only entered this thread in anger, so to speak, to talk about science. I'm not out to disprove god, it's impossible. God doesn't ever enter my thoughts because there is nothing at all other than peoples 'faith' as evidence of existence and as we have discussed faith is belief in the absence of evidence. I can't really make my logic for my beliefs any simpler, if I don't know how something works I son't just invent a supernatural cause, I work through steps of logic untill I have achieved a scientific answer based on observations and mathematics. If that takes time, then so be it........ That's the persuit of truth. Its absolutely nothing to do with " winning "..........your entry into this thread was anger....me too.............i dont see reason for folk to ridicule/belittle another man because he has a different version of truth to them........truth that cannot be proven either way....................if it was clear black and white yes i get that.....but when they have the attitude of.... " you retarded c**t you dont believe the truth i cant prove ".........that irritates me,the whole contradiction thing. Its no different to any other subject that cant be totally proven with facts in that people will believe whatever they want to believe,i just dont like the belittling high and mighty attitude that what is essentially a small minority of the world takes . Edited August 17, 2014 by gnasher16 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BigBrianBorou 35 Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 excatly born dodging the q again because you cant explain your theory because you dont know ,are you going to explain your theory you were discussing the last 500 replys,should be no bother saying your science scholar,tell the truth mate,your not,one last time lol.CREATION = CREATOR = GOD THERE IS LOTS OF CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC AN MATHMATICAL EVIDENCE THAT POINTS TO AN YOUNG EARTH CREATION THERE IS ABSOLOUTLEY 0 EVIDENCE FOR EVOLOUTION IT WOULDNT STAND IN COURT OF LAW Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,118 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Ok my last comment on here . Here is how I seen it after reading the book (The Bible) The man at the centre of this here topic Jesus himself, nothing more than an early illusionist / conman / charlatan, you choose which.So here he his poor old Jesus the carpenter knocking up tables chairs and wheels for carts and the odd stable door bored out of his tits, so he recruits all his pals, all twelve of them ( the so called disciples) and they ya go he has a little firm of his own. Old Jesus you see had a good start in life to be a conman after all his own mother ran the biggest blag of all time, and poor old Joseph well as we know he fell hook line and sinker for it. So good old Jesus sorts out his crew, first you play the cripple , you play the blind man, the rest of you stand by as witnesses so when they touch my robe the cure begins. Never took Jesus long to get a good thing going. Then him and his little crew get an invite to a wedding were with the slight of hand turn water to wine, pretty soon his reputation is spreading like wildfire. But now the romans have cottoned on to his little game, but are struggling to find him, so what do the romans do ? pull Judas in for a few questions plus a few clips round the lug and a few gold coins in back pocket, quick as a flash he sticks his pal Jesus right in it. Then the Romans decide to make an example of him as we all know how, but ones things for sure by the time the romans did their work nobody ran them scams for a long time after. might sound far fetched but to me it sounds more believable than the old book itself ………….just saying like……topic closed for me If i picked up a book that was a joke from page 1......i certainly wouldnt of made it much past page 5.......and you read the entire thing ! i had 18 months of spare time on my hands and a quiet peaceful room to myself for 23 hrs a day……so i thought what the hell lets see what its all about I know exactly what thats about i had around 5 times that much spare time and still couldnt manage it much as i tried if something makes no sense to me i,ll put it down and pick up something that does.....but then we,re all different i guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Hareydave 1,214 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 excatly born dodging the q again because you cant explain your theory because you dont know ,are you going to explain your theory you were discussing the last 500 replys,should be no bother saying your science scholar,tell the truth mate,your not,one last time lol.CREATION = CREATOR = GOD THERE IS LOTS OF CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC AN MATHMATICAL EVIDENCE THAT POINTS TO AN YOUNG EARTH CREATION THERE IS ABSOLOUTLEY 0 EVIDENCE FOR EVOLOUTION IT WOULDNT STAND IN COURT OF LAW why would a creator make things that are of no use Link to post Share on other sites
BigBrianBorou 35 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 wilf you obviously havnt a clue about the bible,what is your beleif,jesus knew he was going to die thats why he was sent,to die on the cross for your an my sins,he took the penalty of death so if we follow him we could be with the father in heaven when we pass Link to post Share on other sites
BigBrianBorou 35 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 what is of no use harvey,your not very clear lad Link to post Share on other sites
Hareydave 1,214 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 what is of no use harvey,your not very clear lad animals an reptiles that have no purpose Link to post Share on other sites
BigBrianBorou 35 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 mate all wildlife has a purpose in the eco system,they all have a part to play Link to post Share on other sites
Hareydave 1,214 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 mate all wildlife has a purpose in the eco system,they all have a part to play then why so many became extint if they had a part to play Link to post Share on other sites
Hareydave 1,214 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 how old did you say the planet is Link to post Share on other sites
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