Sugar Ray Robinson

[marky b 309]

Joe calzaghi was great in his era he might of been good/lucky enough to pick up a belt in the golden era but he wouldn't of dominated at all imo

[MickC 1,825]

Inan some valid points ,especially about Zivic,his manager Luke Carney became Burleys manager so they could manipulate it so that Zivic never had to fight Burley while he was champion.a Burley was an avoided fighter no doubt about that and he also fought at middleweight when he was frozen out at welterweight,he also had to hold down a regular job sometimes to make ends meet , he also had to travel for fights and even fought at heavyweight .Here's a nice article about Burley and a little bit more about the Robinson fight that never happened. http://www.boxinginsider.com/history/charley-burley-great-fighter-no-one-knows/

Edited July 19, 2014 by MickC

[neems 2,406]

Joe calzaghi was great in his era he might of been good/lucky enough to pick up a belt in the golden era but he wouldn't of dominated at all imo

Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins would both have beaten him before they got too old imo.

 

a Jones vs Calzaghe fight (before jones was well passed it,say the Jones that beat Toney) would have been a classic,but they were both too interested in taking easy fights they knew they could win.

[inan 841]

 

 

 

 

Charlie Burley against Sugar Ray Robinson would have been a fight, unfortunately Burley couldn't get the fight because he refused to take a dive . Due to Burleys honesty he never got to fight for a World Title which was a shame when you look at his record and all the HOF that he beat throughout his career. Back then it wasn't uncommon to fight three nights a week for the boxers then to make a living .

This isn't true. Burley never got a title fight because he was ,black, too good,and his style was not fan friendly,plus for some of his career he was managed by Fritzie Zivic whom he beat but Zivic would not defend his title against him. Burley and Robinson's careers did not overlap by much.

In1940 Burley was the no3 welterweight,1941 no5 Robinson no 1.

By 1942 Burley was rated no 2 at middleweight while Robinson was still a welter.where he would stay for 9 years.

Robinson was a black World Champion,Burley did not get the Robinson fight because he would not take a dive, Burley fought at all weights to earn a living,but he was a Natural Welterweight.I guess the book must be wrong

then .

Sp

 

Burley would never have got a title fight with Robinson because by1942 Burley was a middleweight ranked no 2 in that division whilst Robinson was the number 1 contender for the welter title

Burely was a contender for the welter tilte held by his manager Fritzie Zivic whom he had already beaten, that fight was never realistically going to happen.Fritzie having bought his contract to ensure it didn't

 

.By the time Robinson won the welterweight title in1946, Burley was in his last years as a rated fighter at any weight

 

 

You must remember that Burley was nearly 5 years older than Robinson and turned pro in1936, 6 years before Robinson. Burley had 98 fights but only 4 of them were inside the welterweight limit of 147lbs.

Burley never got his deserved ttile chance but Robinson did not duck him,their paths barely overlapped.

 

If you want to point a finger of blame on a champion for not defending against Burley look at the middleweight Zale & welter champions Zivic& Cochrane

 

In1942 Burley was the number 2 contender at160lbs[middleweight]

1943 unranked

1944 number 3

1945 number 2

1946 number 2

 

Tony Zale won united the versions of the middleweight title in1941 when he beat Georgie Abrams.Ten days after this bout something called Pearl Harbour occurred.

 

Zale has one over the weight bout with Billy Conn in 1942 then went in the Navy.

Zale did not fight again until 1946.His title was frozen for the duration on WW2

So you can blame Zale but maybe you should blame WW2 for Burley not getting a title shot?

 

Just don' t blame Ray Robinson.

 

 

ps Please produce a primary source that staes Burley was offered a bribe to lost a title fight to Robinson.

 

NB Neither of the biogrphies Charley Burley & The Black Murderers Row or Charley Burley The Life & Hard Times Of An Uncrowned Champion are primary sources unless accompanied by provenanced references.

 

 

wow if thats from knowledge and not book reading thats some cracking information/memory way beyond anything my little brain can keep hold of

 

Another point that makes you realise the worth of Ray Robinson is how in an era of boxing controlled by the Mafia when approached and knocked back they didnt even push it with him they realised just how special he was......even the Mafia didnt want the legacy of Ray Robinson tainted !

 

Robinson was asked to take a dive twice, both times he refused, but he did carry a couple of fighters.

[MickC 1,825]

Neems

I agree , Calzaghe fought them at the end of there careers but both were still able to drop him. A prime Jones was the best fighter I've seen in the last 30 years, just look at Jones record and who he fought then look at Calzaghes record.Calzaghes biggest win was over Kessler, a Calzaghe was good but he wasn't Roy Jones.Jones was told if he moved upto heavyweight he would have to stay at that weight as his body would never be the same again, he didn't listen and moved back down to lightheavyweight ,he won over Tarver then his career fell apart,Jones is still fighting now and is a shell of his former self he simply can't walk away from the sport.

[inan 841]

Inan some valid points ,especially about Zivic,his manager Luke Carney became Burleys manager so they could manipulate it so that Zivic never had to fight Burley while he was champion.a Burley was an avoided fighter no doubt about that and he also fought at middleweight when he was frozen out at welterweight,he also had to hold down a regular job sometimes to make ends meet , he also had to travel for fights and even fought at heavyweight .Here's a nice article about Burley and a little bit more about the Robinson fight that never happened. http://www.boxinginsider.com/history/charley-burley-great-fighter-no-one-knows/

Thanks for the link.I'm in regular correspondence with an old guy ,[even older than me!] who saw Robinson fight. The only know footage of Burley boxing in the public domain is against Oakland Billy Smith.here it is.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp9lkBqm6bQ

 

This guy Great A, has some good footage to view for free.

[neems 2,406]

Neems

I agree , Calzaghe fought them at the end of there careers but both were still able to drop him. A prime Jones was the best fighter I've seen in the last 30 years, just look at Jones record and who he fought then look at Calzaghes record.Calzaghes biggest win was over Kessler, a Calzaghe was good but he wasn't Roy Jones.Jones was told if he moved upto heavyweight he would have to stay at that weight as his body would never be the same again, he didn't listen and moved back down to lightheavyweight ,he won over Tarver then his career fell apart,Jones is still fighting now and is a shell of his former self he simply can't walk away from the sport.

It's hard to imagine any of these old pre 60s fighters who fought much more regularly even getting near him at middle or light heavy,let alone beating him.

[MickC 1,825]

Inan When you read up on the old fighters and see how often they fought and the corruption in the sport it was quite remarkable.Even today fighters change promoters to avoid facing the other Champions at the same weight, fighters today are certainly treated a lot better than they were back then .

[marky b 309]

 

Joe calzaghi was great in his era he might of been good/lucky enough to pick up a belt in the golden era but he wouldn't of dominated at all imo

Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins would both have beaten him before they got too old imo.

 

a Jones vs Calzaghe fight (before jones was well passed it,say the Jones that beat Toney) would have been a classic,but they were both too interested in taking easy fights they knew they could win.

i agree with you about jones and would of with Hopkins at the time they fought but with Hopkins still at the top I'd say now they was evenly matched at the time IMO.

[brad88 133]

will someone go on youtube and put the clip up off coming to America with eddie murphy in the barber shop talking about boxing lol. IM USELESS

[johnny boy68 11,726]

will someone go on youtube and put the clip up off coming to America with eddie murphy in the barber shop talking about boxing lol. IM USELESS

[Ggib 370]

fcuk them all they wouldnt stand a chance against rocky balboa, he even beat he big russian giants way back in the 80s. i think george foreman would have dominated in any era, he had power to spare

[TUFFTY 1,476]

 

Inan some valid points ,especially about Zivic,his manager Luke Carney became Burleys manager so they could manipulate it so that Zivic never had to fight Burley while he was champion.a Burley was an avoided fighter no doubt about that and he also fought at middleweight when he was frozen out at welterweight,he also had to hold down a regular job sometimes to make ends meet , he also had to travel for fights and even fought at heavyweight .Here's a nice article about Burley and a little bit more about the Robinson fight that never happened. http://www.boxinginsider.com/history/charley-burley-great-fighter-no-one-knows/

 

Thanks for the link.I'm in regular correspondence with an old guy ,[even older than me!] who saw Robinson fight. The only know footage of Burley boxing in the public domain is against Oakland Billy Smith.here it is.

 

 

This guy Great A, has some good footage to view for free.

 

Great link.

 

Thanks for that.

[MickC 1,825]

And another link to the man

[marky b 309]

fcuk them all they wouldnt stand a chance against rocky balboa, he even beat he big russian giants way back in the 80s. i think george foreman would have dominated in any era, he had power to spare

big George didn't dominate his own era