Legal Advise

[will.f11 24]

Hi, not sure if any of you lads have had this before but my old man farms about 150 acres in cornwall, the top end of the farm which we don't spend a lot of time at is all bordered by houses running up through the village each field about 8 acres running down to our woods and river, one bloke lately has been feeding foxes. My mate who lives close to him has seen it and the foxes are now so uncontrollable they are ripping up bins keeping people awake barking etc etc. I didn't believe ant from what he said and he said come have a look so we went down with the lamp squeaked and counted 14 adult foxes running within 60 yards of us and apparently 4 broods of Cubs are in the woods. Have had a few arguments with matey who has been telling me to get off my own families land!! Turning into abit of a feud at the moment but want to nip it in the bud sort the fox problem out and leave it quiet. My mate shoots with rifles up to .308 I think and also shotguns and I do abit of shotgun shooting myself. the chap claims you can't shoot a gun within so many yards of houses etc etc where do we stand with killing them legally as illegally is not an option he takes pictures and causes trouble with the law, just want to know what law says on shooting from gardens onto private land with permission and or shooting from the field but only way of getting a safe shot is stood with back to houses but fairly close. Sorry some of this probably doesn't make sense as abit raged. Also have live traps up there but they won't take the risk as they are being fed up the top.. Had it there a fortnight with no success cheers hope you can help

Edited July 13, 2014 by moxy

[SportingShooter 0]

Are there any highways near the back of the house? Footpaths, Bridleways, Roads, Lanes etc?

 

The only two laws that I'm aware of that would apply would be discharging a firearm within 50 feet of the centre of a highway which causes someone to be interupted, injured or endagered (Highways Act 1980). This does not apply to buildings.

 

And the Town Police Clauses Act S.28 - any person in any street to the obstruction, annoyance or danger of the residents or passengers wantonly discharges a firearm.

That is a very old law which I dare say hasn't been used for God knows how many years but it is still relevant, though in this case I would suggest it is not "wanton" because its for the purposes of pest control.

 

If those don't apply and the bullet would end up on land which the shooter has permission then I can't think of any laws that prevent you from shooting onto the land from the garden.

 

That of course wouldn't prevent the helpful chap ringing the police claiming all sorts of things, so I would suggest that your best bet would be to ring them before you start shooting so they're aware and give them a mobile number you can be contacted on.

 

I would also suggest trying to be as discreet as possible. If these foxes are within short distances i.e. 50-60 yards then a moderated .22LR may be the answer in competent hands and provided their firearms certificate is conditioned to allow it. Firing a shotgun at night is likely to make more than one of the residents unhappy...

[The Seeker 3,048]

Sound advice from SS.

 

You could also try a hushpower shotgun if you want to be discrete.

 

I agree to phone the police to let them know you are going to be shooting on your own land, get a reference number or at least the name and number of the officer you spoke with.

 

Make sure you have a safe backstop and try if possible to shoot away from the houses so not to aggravate the situation. Other then that this guy can do nothing to stop you from controlling these foxes on your land

 

Let us know ow you get on.

[Alsone 789]

I'm not sure you can shoot from the garden with a rifle because the garden constitutes the land you're shooting from so unless you / he has an open certificate, it has to be passed for the calibre you're using.

 

You're never going to get the garden passed and it already won't be, so unless you're open, it would be illegal.

 

Like the others, I know of know reason why you couldn't shoot near the houses (but it's prudent to shoot away from them), and so my advice in the absence of an open ticket, (and what be prudent anyway), would be to set up a hide or tent if you want to be more discrete to your neighbours, against your garden wall a few days before, and then sit in that on the land you're cleared for and shoot from there away from the houses and down your land. Don't use it the same night you set it up as your neighbour may be watching and don't use lights. Night vision would be an advantage here.

 

I suggest you check for any other illegalities though with a shooting organisation to be safe.

 

That way you won't fall foul of ticket conditions or have people calling the police saying "there's a man in a garden firing a gun"!

 

Also, I'd notify the police in advance of the fact that you're shooting on your land - the guy in the house who feeds the foxes will almost certainly start trouble if he sees you shooting them. A call to the police in advance will help you as if he calls in and you have permission, they'll most probably tell him that they are aware of you shooting and that it's legal for you to do so. If he then causes trouble, it also puts you in a better position if you need to call them.

 

I also agree with SS's suggestion of using a moderated .22LR. Use it and shoot in the early hours if you can long after he's gone to bed. That way he'll never hear you or see you.

 

Another alternative if he's out every night feeding them when they're about, is wait for him to go on holiday.

 

You also mention a wood on your land they come out of. You could set a tent / hide up just outside the wood and facing into it. Let them get used to it. Then shoot them in the edge of the wood which you can bait before they emerge so your neighbour can't see you what you're shooting. Make a clearing if necessary. Just a word of advice, make sure you have a background. Don't assume the wood will stop stray shots as they could pass through and you never know who else is in the wood even if it is private. Never assume anything is safe, make it safe!

Edited July 14, 2014 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

All good advice, and I would like to add, when you go along and shoot the foxes, take someone without a firearm, but armed with a video camera, and film EVERYTHING, if he comes out shouting the odds, and rings the old bill and accuses you of threatening him, you have it all on film,the only words I would utter to him if he approaches, are to let him know that the rifle/shotgun you are carrying is unloaded(might be worth taking a slip along with you and slipping the rifle if he approaches), and get your mate to film that too, I would say it is a given that he will ring plod, and say you have threatened him with a firearm, VIDEO everything, dont get into an argument with him, ignore him but let him know he is being filmed, I would be very surprised if he did not film you.

[will.f11 24]

The bloke thankfully is clever enough not to actually step into the field he won't pass his wire fence just throws feed over, thanks a lot will put some thought and organization into it and make a plan. My mate is on open think he has .22 .17 hmr and .308 but not 100% sure

[charlie caller 3,654]

Could he not be charged with some kind of littering offence, if he is throwing food presumably meat products onto your fathers land? Some kind of bio hazard maybe, might be worth speaking to BASC and getting their legal dept to advise, I would be surprised if he is not filming the foxes from his house, so make sure you do everything by the book, and when you have finished dont forget to lay the bag out so he can get a nice view of them :cray:in fact what about a peace making gesture? Offer him a couple of brushes to cuddle up to at night

Edited July 14, 2014 by charlie caller

[SportingShooter 0]

Could he not be charged with some kind of littering offence, if he is throwing food presumably meat products onto your fathers land? Some kind of bio hazard maybe, might be worth speaking to BASC and getting their legal dept to advise, I would be surprised if he is not filming the foxes from his house, so make sure you do everything by the book, and when you have finished dont forget to lay the bag out so he can get a nice view of them :cray:in fact what about a peace making gesture? Offer him a couple of brushes to cuddle up to at night

 

Perhaps Defra or the Environment Agency may be interested if he is dumping meat products onto farmland, particularly if there are livestock on the ground

[treecreeper 1,136]

Mention it to the police when you ring 101, tell them he is littering/polluting your land, so when they do turn up get them to advise him to stop and that the maximum fine is 2500 quid I think.

Id be tempted to set up a trail camera to film him doing it, then you will know what time he is about and send it to the council if he carries on being a pest.

[Alsone 789]

Perhaps Defra or the Environment Agency may be interested if he is dumping meat products onto farmland, particularly if there are livestock on the ground

 

 

You could also probably go down the route of Nuisance, but as it's a Civil Action and you could just get caught up in a long and expensive law suit.

 

You could also seek an injunction to prevent him throwing matter onto your land.

 

I also agree with SS on the meat point. I'm sure there is legislation regarding livestock and exposure to meat products. However, I wonder if involving DEFRA might be better as a last resort in case they shut the farm down or impose restrictions whilst doing testing to confirm there's no contamination? That won't go down well with your family.

 

Easiest way forward if you want to pursue a formal route, might be a polite letter stating that it has come to your attention that he is throwing food stuffs onto your farm land. Apart from the fact that this is unlawful disposal constituting littering and / or fly tipping, it could encourage vermin and potentially also lead to contamination of the grass land and or water supplies to the farm which is used for food production either directly, through bacteria / viruses that attack the food products deposited on your land, or indirectly though disease and or contaminants transferred from vermin attracted onto the land by the same. You therefore require him to stop depositing food stuffs or other matter on your land immediately. If he fails to do so, you will have no option but to report the matter to the Police and DEFRA as a Criminal Act of littering / fly tipping / contamination.

 

If in any doubt as to what to put in your letter, consult a shooting organisation or a solicitor to get a suitable letter drawn up.

 

I'd also hide with a camera in the wood and film him doing it over several nights BEFORE sending any letter. Keep it as it's your proof.

 

My 1st point of call after that, if the letter had no effect would be the police.

 

Just be aware though, if you can avoid falling out with your neighbours do so. If you can quietly do away with all the foxes at 3am one night with a silenced .22 without him ever knowing, then that might be a better solution as you won't get him off side and you wouldn't need a letter! If you're going to try and do away with them this route though, I'd still film him over several nights before though, when he's putting the food out. That way if you fail and he sees you and things turn nasty, you can still prove he's contaminating your land.

 

Just be aware, once he's off side, he might be waiting every night to try and film something he can use against you. So my advice would be try and remove them unnoticed first.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Alsone

[celticrusader 78]

Maybe you could have a word with the local police and explain the situation with the problems this person causes you and the actions you want to take to clear up the fox problem, if you inform them every time you intend to go up there and go with someone else you have at least a witness in your favour.

[SportingShooter 0]

Hopefully it wont come to anywhere near as serious as instigating criminal/civil proceedings against this chap,

 

I would hope that he can't stay awake all night and a late night shoot would clear up most of the foxes in a short space of time if they are fairly timid.

 

However, one more tool in your toolbox could be the issue of trespass. Albeit the offence of simple trespass is a civil offence not a criminal one, there is case law on persons being prosecuted for aggravated trespass or other broadly similar criminal offences if they interrupt or obstruct a lawful activity, The Duke of Rutland I believe we have to thank for that one.

 

Just another one to consider if it reaches that stage which I hope it wont

[celticrusader 78]

From what I'm aware trespassing isn't a crime that is prosecutable unless its armed or there is intention of any wrong doing like his vehicle or body is searched providing evidence to back up that a crime is to be undertaken by that person.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Treecreeper makes a good point, a trail cam would be working for you gathering evidence while you are not there,and helping you to note his movements, if you go down the letter route, as Alsone suggests you could inform him you have photographic evidence of his fly tipping/contamination, I would be very surprised if he has not got a camera set up in his home, to film the foxes, and also you as you have had crossed words with him, I agree with the points raised about shooting them with a .22 without his knowledge, is the way to avoid any hassle, HOWEVER I am afraid I am far too bloody minded, and if the land belonged to my parents, I would shoot the damn things whenever I liked, if you are well within your rights to shoot on the land (and of course you are) and you do everything by the book, perhaps speaking to the police and outlining your intentions, I would go and annihilate the lot, while he stood and cried but I think the stealthy method is probably the best

[celticrusader 78]

Ha ha touche Charlie caller, that being said hopefully the police will see his ramblings as that of a stupid timewaster who has nothing better to do ( and it sounds to me who doesn't approve of our shooting).

That being said I was under the impression that baiting vermin onto land is illegal...especially since its not his?