One For The Apologists.....

[charlie caller 3,654]

So by your reckoning if my parents (being white) were born in Nigeria, and I was then born from their union, in Nigeria, I am Nigerian yes? Ok my passport and birth cert etc would say Nigerian, however my ethnicity would not be African/Nigerian would it? In the same way that a black,brown,mixed race, mongolian, red Indian, Mexican etc etc born in England, does not have an English ethnicity, he may be born in England, but he can never be English in the true sense of the meaning, he can put on an England football shirt, or have the white wyrm of England tattooed on his forehead, but he will never be of the separate ethnic group that is English, I do hope that is clear.

[pesky1972 5,325]

If you're passport/birth certificate etc. say you're Nigerian and you feel Nigerian and you want to play for Nigeria then as far as i'm concerned that makes you Nigerian....regardless of your ethnicity.

 

You never answered my 2nd point; You're disputing that anyone can be called or consider themselves 'English' unless they can trace their blood lineage back to Anglo-Saxon times. Or does that only apply to black players?

 

How many Englishmen do you think actually live in England?

[charlie caller 3,654]

The first part of your post says it all then, in your opinion ethnicity does not matter, well that is your opinion, and I respect your right to hold it.

 

on your second point which I apologise for not answering to your satisfaction, no it does not only apply to black players, why would it?But the whole point of me starting (and I apologise to the op) my little rant, is that it was suggested that a person of African heritage can be English, they cannot, I am not going to repeat what I said earlier, I have said it enough times, if a person cares to have a DNA test, and trace their ancestry, and find that they do indeed have Anglo-Saxon heritage, then they can in my opinion rightfully call themselves English,I would venture to suggest that (in fact I will try and find the figures out, as I have them somewhere) a large proportion of white Germanic looking people in this country, will have Saxon/Norse/Scandinavian heritage, lets not forget we have been here for around 1500 years, and the bones of our forebears lie in English soil en-mass.

 

On your last question, I am afraid I dont quite understand what you are asking, are you asking me about the proportion of Englishmen that live abroad in contrast to here?Or are you asking me how many people that claim to be English live here?

[neems 2,406]

English is a national identity not an ethnic identity.

the word nation deriving from the latin natio...

 

disgusting either way,

poor fella could have caught something.

[neems 2,406]

If you're passport/birth certificate etc. say you're Nigerian and you feel Nigerian and you want to play for Nigeria then as far as i'm concerned that makes you Nigerian....regardless of your ethnicity.

 

You never answered my 2nd point; You're disputing that anyone can be called or consider themselves 'English' unless they can trace their blood lineage back to Anglo-Saxon times. Or does that only apply to black players?

 

How many Englishmen do you think actually live in England?

 

so if I want to wear a muzzle and chase an electric hare does that make me a greyhound?

 

I'd call that an identity crises,not some sort of transformation.

[neems 2,406]

 

So . . . . what we have learnt, in short . . .

 

Is that . . . .

 

The English are just a race of Germanic invaders, settlers and immigrants who moved to this country, created their own rules, pushed out the natives etc.

 

And the only true Britons are found amongst the Welsh, Irish and Scots.

 

Funny that we call England - Lloegyr, which denotes a foreign land, full of foreign people.

 

You are quite right a race of Germanic invaders, however what you have conveniently forgotten to mention is the fact that you "true Britons" who cowered down under the heel of Rome, and became oh so Roman, actually invited the Saxons into this country as mercenary fighters, as you weak Romanised "Britons" could no longer hold your own against the invading picts (the true scottish, not the modern scots of Irish decent) then by war and conquest the "English" pushed the "Britons" into Wales etc and took the land for their homeland, I make no apology for that, the Celts or "Britons" invaded this country around 500bc, tell me Ideation do you think this country was devoid of people then? Or do you think the "true Britons" conquered the peoples already native to these shores? Ithink we know the answer dont we.

 

And Pesky, lets not forget that great Scottish hero you are all so proud of, good old William Wallace, was of Norman ancestory, the de-Wallace family hailing from I believe Wales after the Normans came, so your great hero was in fact of Viking decent, and Robert the Bruce always bemoaned the loss of the house of Wessex (West Saxons) who I believe he was descended from

I don't think it's fair to say ancient Britons were weak,they were fighting an empire that knew the Europeans weaknesses.

 

You'll find this article Interesting

 

http://thuleanperspective.com/2014/06/26/about-soldiers-warriors-hunter-gatherers/

[Born Hunter 17,788]

 

If you're passport/birth certificate etc. say you're Nigerian and you feel Nigerian and you want to play for Nigeria then as far as i'm concerned that makes you Nigerian....regardless of your ethnicity.

 

You never answered my 2nd point; You're disputing that anyone can be called or consider themselves 'English' unless they can trace their blood lineage back to Anglo-Saxon times. Or does that only apply to black players?

 

How many Englishmen do you think actually live in England?

so if I want to wear a muzzle and chase an electric hare does that make me a greyhound?

 

I'd call that an identity crises,not some sort of transformation.

 

 

The difference here is that I'm not sure 'English' is an ethnicity. According to CC's history the Englishmen of today, those at least that are the descendants of the Germanic immigrants (we'll just pretend that no integration has ever taken place for simplicity), share identical genetic heritage to all of the other Germanic people (from Europe) which makes us all of the same ethnicity. The only defining feature of the English is the borders of the country they/we reside in, which has nothing to do with ethnicity. Ethnicity is defined by gentics, not location, right?

 

The problem with these debates is always defining the terminology.

[The Seeker 3,048]

I'm glad that's all cleared up then

 

Anyone for a cup of tea :laugh:

[neems 2,406]

 

 

If you're passport/birth certificate etc. say you're Nigerian and you feel Nigerian and you want to play for Nigeria then as far as i'm concerned that makes you Nigerian....regardless of your ethnicity.

 

You never answered my 2nd point; You're disputing that anyone can be called or consider themselves 'English' unless they can trace their blood lineage back to Anglo-Saxon times. Or does that only apply to black players?

 

How many Englishmen do you think actually live in England?

 

so if I want to wear a muzzle and chase an electric hare does that make me a greyhound?

I'd call that an identity crises,not some sort of transformation.

The difference here is that I'm not sure 'English' is an ethnicity. According to CC's history the Englishmen of today, those at least that are the descendants of the Germanic immigrants (we'll just pretend that no integration has ever taken place for simplicity), share identical genetic heritage to all of the other Germanic people (from Europe) which makes us all of the same ethnicity. The only defining feature of the English is the borders of the country they/we reside in, which has nothing to do with ethnicity. Ethnicity is defined by gentics, not location, right?

 

The problem with these debates is always defining the terminology.

I don't entirely agree with CC,I believe we are to varying degrees made up of all the conquerors of this Island.

 

and that unique mixture having spread all over this country became a new ethnicity.

 

the same would have been true for ancient germans.

[Born Hunter 17,788]

I don't entirely agree with CC,I believe we are to varying degrees made up of all the conquerors of this Island.

 

and that unique mixture having spread all over this country became a new ethnicity.

 

the same would have been true for ancient germans.

 

 

I have altogether different problems with the philisophical conclusions about ethnicity from that hypothesis, but I'll save those for another day and another thread. LOL

[pesky1972 5,325]

 

 

If you're passport/birth certificate etc. say you're Nigerian and you feel Nigerian and you want to play for Nigeria then as far as i'm concerned that makes you Nigerian....regardless of your ethnicity.

 

You never answered my 2nd point; You're disputing that anyone can be called or consider themselves 'English' unless they can trace their blood lineage back to Anglo-Saxon times. Or does that only apply to black players?

 

How many Englishmen do you think actually live in England?

so if I want to wear a muzzle and chase an electric hare does that make me a greyhound?

 

I'd call that an identity crises,not some sort of transformation.

 

 

The difference here is that I'm not sure 'English' is an ethnicity. According to CC's history the Englishmen of today, those at least that are the descendants of the Germanic immigrants (we'll just pretend that no integration has ever taken place for simplicity), share identical genetic heritage to all of the other Germanic people (from Europe) which makes us all of the same ethnicity. The only defining feature of the English is the borders of the country they/we reside in, which has nothing to do with ethnicity. Ethnicity is defined by gentics, not location, right?

 

The problem with these debates is always defining the terminology.

 

Doesn't that mean that the Anglo-Saxons were, and are, in fact Germans by definition.....dogs born in stables and all that?

 

The first part of your post says it all then, in your opinion ethnicity does not matter, well that is your opinion, and I respect your right to hold it.

 

on your second point which I apologise for not answering to your satisfaction, no it does not only apply to black players, why would it?But the whole point of me starting (and I apologise to the op) my little rant, is that it was suggested that a person of African heritage can be English, they cannot, I am not going to repeat what I said earlier, I have said it enough times, if a person cares to have a DNA test, and trace their ancestry, and find that they do indeed have Anglo-Saxon heritage, then they can in my opinion rightfully call themselves English,I would venture to suggest that (in fact I will try and find the figures out, as I have them somewhere) a large proportion of white Germanic looking people in this country, will have Saxon/Norse/Scandinavian heritage, lets not forget we have been here for around 1500 years, and the bones of our forebears lie in English soil en-mass.

 

On your last question, I am afraid I dont quite understand what you are asking, are you asking me about the proportion of Englishmen that live abroad in contrast to here?Or are you asking me how many people that claim to be English live here?

I suppose I meant, by your definition, how many Englishmen are actually left in existence? I would assume that the percentage of Englishmen living in England diminishes year on year... and will continue to do so until the pure bloodline eventually becomes extinct....or at least the tiniest 'ethnic' minority.

 

In 1500 years there'll be more 'non-English' bones buried in the soil under England's green and pleasant land than there ever were 'true English'. Whose country will it be then, and what will it be called? Will England will cease to exist?

 

'English' is a word..., to me it's a term used to describe someone from England regardless of their ethnic roots. It'll mean different things to different people. Your literal application of the word may be the most factually accurate but it doesn't make you right. The word and the world has moved on.

[charlie caller 3,654]

And that gentelmen is the problem, the self haters, who promote the idea that to be white and English is something to be ashamed of, and who are in the process of trying to destroy the white race, by trying to breed us out of extinction, have done a good job of brainwashing a large proportion of the population, something only too evident here today.

[pesky1972 5,325]

I've never promoted the idea that to be white and English is something to be ashamed of... only the being English bit...but then that's my patriotic duty as a Scotsman

 

As for being brainwashed, I think that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I don't feel that my national identity is under threat, far from it... and certainly don't believe anyone is trying to breed the 'Scots' (whatever that might mean to you) into extinction.

 

There's a saying in Scotland that 'we're all Jock Tamson's bairns'. I've lived by that all my life and tried not to pre-judge anyone by their religion, race, football team etc.

 

I think that you need to accept what's happening and just get on with it rather then harping on about some ancient history...., which is only the blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things and as far as these islands are concerned.., and stop hating something that you're powerless to change.... it'll only make you unhappy.

[neems 2,406]

So we should just accept we're going to die out?

The last few of us probably to be raped and murdered by the invaders.

 

We're already getting raped and murdered regularly by them,it's massively under reported,unlike I'm sure the subject of this thread,who'll no doubt become a mini-saint steven lawrence.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Powerless to change? Good job we did not adopt that attitude in the war then is it not, I am not for one minute suggesting that you are promoting any anti white feelings or agenda, what I am saying is that the political elite that rule over us, are determined to destroy any form of English nationalism, and ultimately the white race,if we were sat in a pub having a pint, I could have a much better discussion with you on the subject, but there is only a limited amount one can say on a public forum, but I care about my kids future, my people, and yes, my race, if you find that abhorrent, or think that my views are anachronistic, and we should roll over and accept our fate like wounded animals, then let me tell you my friend that is not the English way, never has been, never will, so if you want to accept the liberal/leftie, multicult enrichment crock of shi*e then be my guest, and as for brainwashing, guess what I worked all this out myself, its called an enquiring mind