Super Rats

[Richard Warwick 50]

Barn owls won't be affected too much by most of the poisons, i should imagine most would be set in urban areas, you mentioned pest control is a hobby of yours have you seen an increase in the rat population or is it just the media over reacting?

[RossM 8,119]

 

with all due respect, anyone who thinks you can poison one species without it effecting another species, and that raptors don't eat carrion is equally as crazy

 

Whatever you say fella

 

My experience is that when people start a sentence off with the words "with all due respect", that's not what they really mean

 

The fact is, sensibly used, by professionals, and for limited periods of time, Brodifacoum, Floucoumafen and Difethialone represent far less risk to BoP than to be continually chucking Difenacoum and Bromadialone at them while the target populations grow.

 

As was said on the TV programme, Barn Owl numbers are increasing, and car accidents cause far more deaths than rodenticide.

 

When successive governments place more importance on birds than human health, you know the worlds going mad

With all due respect he could've started it with f@#k you matt........

[Matt 160]

Barn owls won't be affected too much by most of the poisons, i should imagine most would be set in urban areas, you mentioned pest control is a hobby of yours have you seen an increase in the rat population or is it just the media over reacting?

 

 

A 'hobby'

 

Twenty five years a professional

 

You see, you've made a serious error there, Barn Owls are in fact one of the most seriously effected species, along with kestrels.

 

The bait kept down permanently for rats is actually being eaten by small mammals, like woodmice and fieldmice, which are in turn being predated by Barn Owls and Kestrels.

 

For many years now, residues of rodenticides have been found in liver samples taken from dead birds. There is very little actual evidence that these residues are causing deaths, but the BoP lobby have made as much of it as they can.

 

So, wise one, tell us all why the UK is the only country to restrict the use of effective rodenticides outside? Are birds of prey in other countries immune?

[Richard Warwick 50]

 

Barn owls won't be affected too much by most of the poisons, i should imagine most would be set in urban areas, you mentioned pest control is a hobby of yours have you seen an increase in the rat population or is it just the media over reacting?

 

 

A 'hobby'

 

Twenty five years a professional

 

You see, you've made a serious error there, Barn Owls are in fact one of the most seriously effected species, along with kestrels.

 

The bait kept down permanently for rats is actually being eaten by small mammals, like woodmice and fieldmice, which are in turn being predated by Barn Owls and Kestrels.

 

For many years now, residues of rodenticides have been found in liver samples taken from dead birds. There is very little actual evidence that these residues are causing deaths, but the BoP lobby have made as much of it as they can.

 

So, wise one, tell us all why the UK is the only country to restrict the use of effective rodenticides outside? Are birds of prey in other countries immune?

 

 

sorry, weren't aware you were in that profesion, wha percentage of Barn owl population is affected by rodenticides, is a large number? surely it can't be as bad as the lobbies make out?

[Matt 160]

It's a large percentage of those samples tested

 

BUT....... it's 'residues' and it's not actually the cause of death

 

Oh, and the problem is a rural one, not an urban one

 

 

I've controlled large numbers of resistant rats with terriers and traps, and I can assure you that you are only ever taking the top of the population off. Usually, within a year, the problem is back to the same level it was.

 

Part of my business for a number of years was providing field services for a university that was researching this issue. I worked exclusively with genetically sampled resistant populations and we tested various rodenticides in field situations to measure the effect they had.

 

As part of any research trial, other wildlife in the locality was routinely assessed, and the only impact on it was predation by the often huge rat population.

 

Terriers have always been part of my life; but they were invaluable when working in these areas. I did a large number of commercial poultry units, and at depopulation I used to use them to clear up any rats in the dung pits. That was usually followed up with some intensive trapping. Amazingly, year on year, the numbers of rats killed stayed virtually the same. 1000 in a day was not uncommon

[p3d 879]

It's a large percentage of those samples tested

 

BUT....... it's 'residues' and it's not actually the cause of death

 

Oh, and the problem is a rural one, not an urban one

 

 

I've controlled large numbers of resistant rats with terriers and traps, and I can assure you that you are only ever taking the top of the population off. Usually, within a year, the problem is back to the same level it was.

 

Part of my business for a number of years was providing field services for a university that was researching this issue. I worked exclusively with genetically sampled resistant populations and we tested various rodenticides in field situations to measure the effect they had.

 

As part of any research trial, other wildlife in the locality was routinely assessed, and the only impact on it was predation by the often huge rat population.

 

Terriers have always been part of my life; but they were invaluable when working in these areas. I did a large number of commercial poultry units, and at depopulation I used to use them to clear up any rats in the dung pits. That was usually followed up with some intensive trapping. Amazingly, year on year, the numbers of rats killed stayed virtually the same. 1000 in a day was not uncommon

 

 

The use of terriers in the control of rats and other pests is what we as terriermen need to convey to the public.

 

The ANTI's have been banging on for years about Fox hunting and have ignored the other pests that affect both the

Farmer and now increasingly the Urban areas.

 

Terriers and Ferrets along with Traps and correctly placed poisons are just part of the toolkit that a pest controller needs.

 

If we broaden the debate to include all pests we make a stronger case for terriers in these roles.

Remember that the docking of working dogs tails is dependant on the use of the dog.

 

It is not just for Large Hunt terriers.

[Richard Warwick 50]

docking the ail is handy for bushing terriers, isn't that the purpose, very interesting job Matt, do you know of any papers published with facts etc in regards to the owl populations and rodenticides?

[Matt 160]

docking the ail is handy for bushing terriers, isn't that the purpose, very interesting job Matt, do you know of any papers published with facts etc in regards to the owl populations and rodenticides?

 

 

I do have some information that I'm unable to share because it's someone else's intellectual property.

 

There's lot's of stuff on the net if you use google, and also there is a very good (but technical) book written by the worlds leading experts on the subject. It's out of print now, but copies do come up on Amazon occasionally. I'll find you a link if I can.

[the_stig 6,614]

 

 

with all due respect, anyone who thinks you can poison one species without it effecting another species, and that raptors don't eat carrion is equally as crazy

Whatever you say fella

 

My experience is that when people start a sentence off with the words "with all due respect", that's not what they really mean

 

The fact is, sensibly used, by professionals, and for limited periods of time, Brodifacoum, Floucoumafen and Difethialone represent far less risk to BoP than to be continually chucking Difenacoum and Bromadialone at them while the target populations grow.

 

As was said on the TV programme, Barn Owl numbers are increasing, and car accidents cause far more deaths than rodenticide.

 

When successive governments place more importance on birds than human health, you know the worlds going mad

With all due respect he could've started it with f@#k you matt........

 

or listen here old chap don't be a c**t ...............

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Birds of prey such as owls and kestrels prey on the rodents in the stuper stage before death .IMO people have relied on poisons too much in the past instead of good husbandry and traditional methods.The professionals are equally to blame .Turn up to a premises and straight away start poisoning instead of any other methods .A good clean up is what most premises want but no money where theres no rats .Not a dig just an observation.An infestation can be controlled without poison but most pros wouldnt entertain the thought as its very labour intensive . These so called super rats are a product of a lazy nation where its easy to put a bit of something down now and then when thought about[most farmers ]and not to tidy up and keep food vermin free.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

last year . killer spiders sold a few copies. i agree you wont control ALL.rats without modern methods . but you have to admit in the right hands a terrier or two can do a lot of damage. another tool in the bag . says a lot about the times when folk will change laws to help killing with poisons but dont want them killed quickly with trained dogs.

[Matt 160]

Fox dropper, I largely agree with you

 

The problem is that it's often easier to chuck a bit of bait down than try and actually sort the initial issue out.

 

The secondary poisoning problem has been caused (in my opinion) by the biggest pest control companies selling the 'perimeter protection' theory.

 

They thrived on selling service contracts that maintained bait in perimeter bait stations that are used by non-target rodents, which in turn, become food for raptors.

 

The problem is that instead of using rodenticide as a tool to deal with infestations, it's become an insurance policy in it's own right.

 

Without the terriers, I'd have never been able to get control of some very serious infestations, but sadly, bait was always needed to clear up the last few, and in resistance areas like Berkshire and Hampshire, the only bait that actually works is not cleared for outdoor use.

 

We've been campaigning at the highest levels for some years now to make effective products available. Personally, I'd have liked to have seen a licensing system in place that required all the other issues to be sorted out before a license was granted. I don't particularly want to see the stuff that works used as a first choice option; even in the resistance areas.

 

Society has changed. When I started out in the late eighties people didn't chuck down hundredweights of bird food every week, and the water authorities sorted out the sewers if faults were found.

 

Every single regulation and 'code of practice' brought out in recent years has done nothing to improve pest control or the standard of work done. There are more useless idiots in the industry than there has ever been, and standards have continued to spiral downwards, whilst the public have been given more and more access to baits, and are less and less likely to pay a fair rate for quality work.

 

All in all, I'm glad to be out of it now. I'll carry on bumming around doing moles and a few bits of consultancy work as and when I need the dosh.

[welshdragon 6]

There was a programme on about them last night .........

Hi socks what channel was the program on last night about "Super rats

 

atb

[pablo esc 1,598]

Any dog, cat, fox, feret, bird, and the lads would be good enough to get rid of rat's. Anywhere, and be doing it well. Instead of this under the carpet, bull, crap,,, alternative methods, indiscriminate poisoning, and it's the rat's who were not only gettin . It.,.

[wilbur foxhound 480]

Matt owls do eat carrion ive caught them in larsen traps on numerous occasions.they all were tawny, s, but back to those super rats, there was a super rat in a newspaper pictured, it was on tv programme but it wasnt british it was an african rat which are much larger than our rats, atb wf