Hmr & Use On Fox

[The Seeker 3,048]

Google Hog or Pig hunting with the 17HMR there are some quite big feral pig shot with them if you put the bullet in the right place they will go down

Geordie

And here was i thinking i had read just about everything that i could on this site. THIS has got to be the best post ever, shooting feral pig with a HMR priceless....

 

I will be on the phone tomorrow to insist I have wild boar added to the quarry for the HMR FFS somebody please help me.....

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

As SS said earlier, why is this debate still going on?

 

You use any calibre/ammo within its capabilities, and that of the shooter.

 

So, is HMR suitable for fox?

 

YES!

Not according to South Yorkshire it isn't. Admittedly things may have changed but this was their stance a couple of years ago. I know you have several calibres to choose from Deker, intersted to know under what condition would you reach into your cabinet and pull out the HMR if you had a call to dispatch a fox?

 

South Yorks are not in the business of shooting Foxes, they run a Firearms dept!

 

No but they are in the business of issuing out certificates to those who do want to shoot them and implementing conditions relating to said certificates

 

I feel that has very little to do with the OP, the question asked for our thoughts on the suitability of HMR for foxes, not if a region, who are simply in the risk averse business, will give it to you!

 

The answer remains the same whether any individual region will or will not give it too you, and with AOLQ more commonly used they have little choice. Seems strange they fall down with a HMR in many regions but apparently in S Yorks fox are immune to HMR, which part of that makes S Yorks right, or knowledgeable? Even the new Home Office guide lists HMR and WMR as Fox suitable.

 

"You use any calibre/ammo within its capabilities, and that of the shooter."

 

HMR is perfectly suitable for fox!

 

[Deker 3,478]

 

Google Hog or Pig hunting with the 17HMR there are some quite big feral pig shot with them if you put the bullet in the right place they will go down

Geordie

And here was i thinking i had read just about everything that i could on this site. THIS has got to be the best post ever, shooting feral pig with a HMR priceless....

 

I will be on the phone tomorrow to insist I have wild boar added to the quarry for the HMR FFS somebody please help me.....

 

If you had AOLQ listed you would not need to, is that something else S Yorks don't do?

 

I have heard much about them over the years, they do seem hard work!

[The Seeker 3,048]

 

 

 

 

As SS said earlier, why is this debate still going on?

 

You use any calibre/ammo within its capabilities, and that of the shooter.

 

So, is HMR suitable for fox?

 

YES!

 

Not according to South Yorkshire it isn't. Admittedly things may have changed but this was their stance a couple of years ago. I know you have several calibres to choose from Deker, intersted to know under what condition would you reach into your cabinet and pull out the HMR if you had a call to dispatch a fox?

South Yorks are not in the business of shooting Foxes, they run a Firearms dept!

No but they are in the business of issuing out certificates to those who do want to shoot them and implementing conditions relating to said certificates

I feel that has very little to do with the OP, the question asked for our thoughts on the suitability of HMR for foxes, not if a region, who are simply in the risk averse business, will give it to you!

The answer remains the same whether any individual region will or will not give it too you, and with AOLQ more commonly used they have little choice. Seems strange they fall down with a HMR in many regions but apparently in S Yorks fox are immune to HMR, which part of that makes S Yorks right, or knowledgeable? Even the new Home Office guide lists HMR and WMR as Fox suitable."You use any calibre/ammo within its capabilities, and that of the shooter."

 

HMR is perfectly suitable for fox!

 

OK to answer the OP -

 

Will a HMR kill a fox yes it will, should it be used for fox at distances under 100 yards on a calm day IMO yes no problem, should it be used over 100 yards IMO no I don't belive it should as there are better calibres more suited to fix shooting at those ranges and beyond to acheive an effective kill.

 

I know I'm generalising here and it is not meant for anyone on this thread but based on dozens of threads i have read on here. For many the .22lr and 17HMR are the first firearms some people have ever handled and many occasions they are progressing from an air rifle. I just wish to bring a balanced debate to the post, for example anyone reading this thread who has no understanding may now think the HMR is a suitble calibre to shoot feral pig or other posts ive seen in the past foxes at 200+ yards which it isn't.

Too much attention is focused on the ability of the shooter hitting the target at distance but we must pay more attention in my opinion to the respect of the quarry and ensuring the shot is an effective clean kill with the less chance of wounding as possible.

 

ATB

[Alsone 789]

Not seen a certificate in S. Yorks Deker, but I'm guessing they probably condition it against using small calibres against fox when it's otherwise AOLQ.

 

Personally, I'm not against S. York's stance simply because it means you can get a CF at 1st grant instead of having to play around with a .17 with very limited range when foxing, therefore leaving you with little margin for error on shot placement and very marginal killing potential. I'd much rather hit a fox with 2,000ft lbs+ downrange than 100ft lbs or so from .17. There's no doubting 100ftlbs will kill in the right spot, but there's a lot less certainty.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Alsone

[danw 1,748]

Not seen a certificate in S. Yorks Deker, but I'm guessing they probably condition it against using small calibres against fox when it's otherwise AOLQ.

 

Personally, I'm not against S. York's stance simply because it means you can get a CF at 1st grant instead of having to play around with a .17 with very limited range when foxing, therefore leaving you with little margin for error on shot placement and very marginal killing potential. I'd much rather hit a fox with 2,000ft lbs+ downrange than 100ft lbs or so from .17. There's no doubting 100ftlbs will kill in the right spot, but there's a lot less certainty.

And just which CF will give you 2000ft lbs down range that any force will grant a first time or for that any fac holder just for fox?

[SportingShooter 0]

 

 

 

 

 

As SS said earlier, why is this debate still going on?

 

You use any calibre/ammo within its capabilities, and that of the shooter.

 

So, is HMR suitable for fox?

 

YES!

Not according to South Yorkshire it isn't. Admittedly things may have changed but this was their stance a couple of years ago. I know you have several calibres to choose from Deker, intersted to know under what condition would you reach into your cabinet and pull out the HMR if you had a call to dispatch a fox?

South Yorks are not in the business of shooting Foxes, they run a Firearms dept!

No but they are in the business of issuing out certificates to those who do want to shoot them and implementing conditions relating to said certificates

I feel that has very little to do with the OP, the question asked for our thoughts on the suitability of HMR for foxes, not if a region, who are simply in the risk averse business, will give it to you!

The answer remains the same whether any individual region will or will not give it too you, and with AOLQ more commonly used they have little choice. Seems strange they fall down with a HMR in many regions but apparently in S Yorks fox are immune to HMR, which part of that makes S Yorks right, or knowledgeable? Even the new Home Office guide lists HMR and WMR as Fox suitable."You use any calibre/ammo within its capabilities, and that of the shooter."

 

HMR is perfectly suitable for fox!

 

OK to answer the OP -

 

Will a HMR kill a fox yes it will, should it be used for fox at distances under 100 yards on a calm day IMO yes no problem, should it be used over 100 yards IMO no I don't belive it should as there are better calibres more suited to fix shooting at those ranges and beyond to acheive an effective kill.

 

I know I'm generalising here and it is not meant for anyone on this thread but based on dozens of threads i have read on here. For many the .22lr and 17HMR are the first firearms some people have ever handled and many occasions they are progressing from an air rifle. I just wish to bring a balanced debate to the post, for example anyone reading this thread who has no understanding may now think the HMR is a suitble calibre to shoot feral pig or other posts ive seen in the past foxes at 200+ yards which it isn't.

Too much attention is focused on the ability of the shooter hitting the target at distance but we must pay more attention in my opinion to the respect of the quarry and ensuring the shot is an effective clean kill with the less chance of wounding as possible.

 

ATB

 

 

Here here

[charlie caller 3,654]

The OP, how effective is a hmr on fox, 100yrds=effective 1000yrds=not very effective. Simples.

A very clinical and concise answer, but isn't it jolly good fun having a debate, after all that is what these forums are about, is it not? I think it would be a shame and also very boring if every post was answered in a black and white fashion, without any slight digression from the basic answer the op was looking for

[doie1 22]

Couldn't agree more (or did you want me to disagree so we can have a debate about it ) but it's also nice to give the op a clear answer they were looking for isn't it?

[derek.snr 7]

I have both 17 hmr and 223 upwards would I use 17hmr ,no .I have the idea that most of you who are saying yes do not have either a cf calibre or land not cleared .I have shot foxes in the past with the hmr to 150m but am not happy with it but its what I had when the opportunity arose.

[jacknife 2,005]

I have both 17 hmr and 223 upwards would I use 17hmr ,no .I have the idea that most of you who are saying yes do not have either a cf calibre or land not cleared .I have shot foxes in the past with the hmr to 150m but am not happy with it but its what I had when the opportunity arose.

I have cf rifles but the Hmr is normaly the first rifle I grab

 

An evenings lamping is rabbits, hares and foxes so its the ideal calibre

 

I'm not lumping 2 rifle around or paying £1 a round to shoot rabbits

[shropshire dan 467]

I'm about to get my .223 and will probably keep the hmr for charlie on small jobs that only require the odd fox at no more than 100yards

[Alsone 789]

 

Not seen a certificate in S. Yorks Deker, but I'm guessing they probably condition it against using small calibres against fox when it's otherwise AOLQ.

 

Personally, I'm not against S. York's stance simply because it means you can get a CF at 1st grant instead of having to play around with a .17 with very limited range when foxing, therefore leaving you with little margin for error on shot placement and very marginal killing potential. I'd much rather hit a fox with 2,000ft lbs+ downrange than 100ft lbs or so from .17. There's no doubting 100ftlbs will kill in the right spot, but there's a lot less certainty.

And just which CF will give you 2000ft lbs down range that any force will grant a first time or for that any fac holder just for fox?

 

 

.223.

 

(Hornady super performance 40gr has over 2,300ft lbs @ 300 yds.)

[SportingShooter 0]

 

 

Not seen a certificate in S. Yorks Deker, but I'm guessing they probably condition it against using small calibres against fox when it's otherwise AOLQ.

 

Personally, I'm not against S. York's stance simply because it means you can get a CF at 1st grant instead of having to play around with a .17 with very limited range when foxing, therefore leaving you with little margin for error on shot placement and very marginal killing potential. I'd much rather hit a fox with 2,000ft lbs+ downrange than 100ft lbs or so from .17. There's no doubting 100ftlbs will kill in the right spot, but there's a lot less certainty.

And just which CF will give you 2000ft lbs down range that any force will grant a first time or for that any fac holder just for fox?

 

 

.223.

 

(Hornady super performance 40gr has over 2,300ft lbs @ 300 yds.)

 

 

Feet per second perhaps but not foot/lbs,

 

Muzzle energy on a .223 is between 1300-1400 foot/lbs.

[danw 1,748]

 

 

Not seen a certificate in S. Yorks Deker, but I'm guessing they probably condition it against using small calibres against fox when it's otherwise AOLQ.

 

Personally, I'm not against S. York's stance simply because it means you can get a CF at 1st grant instead of having to play around with a .17 with very limited range when foxing, therefore leaving you with little margin for error on shot placement and very marginal killing potential. I'd much rather hit a fox with 2,000ft lbs+ downrange than 100ft lbs or so from .17. There's no doubting 100ftlbs will kill in the right spot, but there's a lot less certainty.

And just which CF will give you 2000ft lbs down range that any force will grant a first time or for that any fac holder just for fox?

 

 

.223.

 

(Hornady super performance 40gr has over 2,300ft lbs @ 300 yds.)

 

Bollocks a 25-06 firing a 85 gr ballistic tip at 3600 fps only makes 2500 ft lbs at the muzzle hornadys own reloading manual gives a 40gr .223 travelling at 4300fps as only having 1642 ft lbs at muzzle and at 300 yds this has fallen to 633ft lbs I should like too see any .223 that can make 4300fps that's 220 swift territory and even then it wont make 2300ft lbs at the muzzle.

 

P.s I have the Hornady reloading manuals in front of me.