When Should The Terrier Travel ?

[block end 242]

 

Those that worked have yes mate .By now im a pretty good judge as to whats good and what aint so the shite never gets to annoy me .Weve done this before so wont be going over it again .If you personally aint happy with what your breeding then pm me and we"ll talk .

. Lol. Am more than happy and dont own robots. So you do have regects and cull them

Everybody has rejects mate it just what they do with them after that's why there so much Shite about a terrier should mark on a lead imo it should be in their nature to jmo

[aaron01 737]

 

Iv seen good marking packs take over 10 minutes to mark spots in the past, not a squeek, just active sterns, then like a flick of a switch they start to mark, so why folk seam to expect a terrier to mark every fox with a quick sniff of a hole is a bit beyond me..

 

At last a bit common sense that sounds like it comes from experience.

Of all the breeds of hunting type dogs hounds probably have the best nose.

So why then can a fox leave a covert 5 seconds in front of hounds and yet they sometimes can't pick up his line.

It's because of the science of scent.

And the scent around an earth is no difference. Especially if the fox has been to ground for some time.

Unless a good, reliable, honest terrier gets in there and checks it you CANNOT walk away saying an earth is empty.

Who ever said that a terrier that travels an empty earth is false marking hasn't a clue what he's talking about.

False marking is one of a terriers biggest faults and a terriermans biggest nightmare.

 

IMO when entering a youngster one of the biggest mistakes a terrier man can make is to ensure that every earth the terrier checks is occupied.

This teaches a young terrier that an earth is never empty and can result in a terrier that wont say NO and will false mark. It must be a combination of someone at home and no one at home.

 

With a good reliable search, find, stay type terrier you'll be surprised how many shitty, dead looking places you'd have walked by are actually holding.

A windy morning can fill entrances with leaves and on a sunny morning spiders will cover entrances with cobwebs in minutes. Combine this with bad scent and earths will appear empty.

Also the fact that a lot of lads wont let a terrier of a lead because they know it might f**k off, never to be seen again.

A terrier is a hunting dog and should be able to run from entrance to entrance of a lead and search an empty looking earth without the terrierman wondering will it pop out the other side and disappear.

 

Also this thread was obviously started by a novice (who got advice from novices) and some one should point out to him that it is illegal for any type of dog to kill a fox in a stopend.

Agree with you Neil it takes a dog to enter the earth for me In regards to a pup running an unoccupied earth is vital in there progress

[gonetoearth 5,144]

 

 

Those that worked have yes mate .By now im a pretty good judge as to whats good and what aint so the shite never gets to annoy me .Weve done this before so wont be going over it again .If you personally aint happy with what your breeding then pm me and we"ll talk .

 

. Lol. Am more than happy and dont own robots. So you do have regects and cull them

Everybody has rejects mate it just what they do with them after that's why there so much Shite about a terrier should mark on a lead imo it should be in their nature to jmo

. Never asked you but expected a similar answer do you have shite probly not why because you dispose of them in what ever way you see fit. The only way other peoples terriers will ever effect you is if you bring them in to you line as their are so many perfectionists on here who know the score this wont happen there has allways been fails there will all ways be fails No matter what any one says why because nature says so not some man who thinks he has a production line of robots. Line breed to long see what nature does in breed to longsee what natue does. Cull or gift make no differsnce. Some will work some wont work. Nature dictates the working gene we just search for it. Oh and not every. Foxhound will mark. Some will some wont lol Edited May 7, 2014 by gonetoearth

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Strongly disagree but thats life .I couldnt get a pup to enter an empty place if i tried and why would i .Why would it enter a place that holds nothing but darkness ,nothing to entice it in .Got a feeling you have made a mistake in writing that Neil.i have known places with cobwebs on that have held though .Also saw an earth one morning in the frost that was steaming with scent literally.Dog pulled as we approached and we dug charley 20 m away .This game is so intriguing as to keep me at it and many more .Allowing ,encouraging a dog into an empty place is asking for future trouble IMO,unless maybe quarry had been dug and the place was full of fresh scent with reward for their find .The internet is full of maybes and second guessing as to make posts a minefield of what ifs.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Strongly disagree but thats life .I couldnt get a pup to enter an empty place if i tried and why would i .Why would it enter a place that holds nothing but darkness ,nothing to entice it in .Got a feeling you have made a mistake in writing that Neil.i have known places with cobwebs on that have held though .Also saw an earth one morning in the frost that was steaming with scent literally.Dog pulled as we approached and we dug charley 20 m away .This game is so intriguing as to keep me at it and many more .Allowing ,encouraging a dog into an empty place is asking for future trouble IMO,unless maybe quarry had been dug and the place was full of fresh scent with reward for their find .The internet is full of maybes and second guessing as to make posts a minefield of what ifs.

. If you terriers are so prolific why. Do you rifle

[jeemes 4,445]

IM OUT

[gonetoearth 5,144]

IM OUT

why did you go to ground !!!!!

[neil cooney 10,416]

Strongly disagree but thats life .I couldnt get a pup to enter an empty place if i tried and why would i .Why would it enter a place that holds nothing but darkness ,nothing to entice it in .Got a feeling you have made a mistake in writing that Neil.i have known places with cobwebs on that have held though .Also saw an earth one morning in the frost that was steaming with scent literally.Dog pulled as we approached and we dug charley 20 m away .This game is so intriguing as to keep me at it and many more .Allowing ,encouraging a dog into an empty place is asking for future trouble IMO,unless maybe quarry had been dug and the place was full of fresh scent with reward for their find .The internet is full of maybes and second guessing as to make posts a minefield of what ifs.

No, no mistake made but of course I am talking about earths bigger than a 2 or 3 holer here. Yes, to me a small earth can quickly be found to be holding or not by a terrier that checks the entrance and say yes or no.

But in a big place I like a terrier to travel and tell us whether there's something home or not. In such places IMO you can't walk away from them hand on heart and say they're empty because your terrier's had a sniff around the entrance.

However, when checking such places and they're empty I do like to be on my way quickly.

Now as for a young terrier checking empty places. Allowing YES, encouraging NO. There's a big difference IMO. I never encourage any youngster at anything. It should do it naturally.

Yes a bit of praise when they're lifted after a successful dig.

If a youngster is very keen to please you to encourage it verbally is to also ask it to false mark.

Same as when a young terrier comes away. Most lads turn it back towards the hole and ask it / encourage it to go back. That's like telling it it's OK to come out.

If you peg a youngster after it comes off and it see's another being entered it should say to itself "I wont do that again.".

If it doesn't then it probably has no future as a working terrier.

I also agree 100% with you Foxdropper regarding not entering pups when hounds are present, silly IMO.

 

How come hound men will talk about scent 'till they're hoarse but you rarely hear terriermen (or shooting men) discuss it.

IMO it plays a much bigger part of our day than we realise.

 

A few years ago I checked a big enough place with a very good reliable bitch.

She went from entrance to entrance and said "no".

We went over the field to try a handy place with a pup and it too was empty.

So to walk back to the vehicle I had to pass the first place but as it was empty I left the old bitch and the pup loose to let them have a run around.

As we passed the big place the old bitch marked and shot to ground followed by the pup.

We ended up with a 5 foot dig to both terriers.

This working bitch had about 3 seasons behind her and when retired this was to be her only mistake in 8 or 9 seasons.

What happened ?

The only thing I think happened is that while we were gone the quarry had moved underground and released scent which the old bitch got the second time.

We'll never know it all about this game.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

No we wont neil scent is and allways will be a mystery the animal kingdom uses scent for many things Nature its self can mask it the weather can inhance and destory it Cannies have been eqiped with the tool to use it And we think we know a little bit about it lol

Edited May 7, 2014 by gonetoearth

[neil cooney 10,416]

I used to ask two gentlemen regularly at the meet "will there be scent today?".

One of these gentlemen was a legend in the game with 50 plus years in hunt service. The other first hunted in the late 50s and is still actively involved to this day.

They always had the same answer "I don't know."

What chance have us "youngsters" got who think we know it all, LOL.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

i wont encourage a dog to run an earth but i like to see a dog run through. we have had both sorts. they all have there place. and they all have uses. the main problem ive had with dogs that travel empty earths is the time it takes to net up every earth.not a big problem to be honest. the only time ive seen it be a serious problem is when the dogs are on the big side. . scenting ability has to be up there with size and voice as essential qualities in earth working terriers. i dont believe for one minute that there is a strain of terriers that mark on top 100%. and dont produce young terriers wanting to travel from an early age. they may be drawn in by the scent. but the make up of terriers tells them to search and destroy. maybe ive picked it up wrong but any terrier that wont hunt for scent i wouldnt own. my brother owned a very good dog that wouldnt travel empty earths. he was never proved wrong but on top he would walk close by only ventering out when he lifted or winded an animal. he was proved wrong often on top by a very busy jr bitch that went out of her way to find . it takes all sorts and we all have different idea's but call me old fashioned but i like a dog to have the instinct to go out and find. above and below. good thread anyone that thinks there terriers are robots are deluded. to say the least.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

i wont encourage a dog to run an earth but i like to see a dog run through. we have had both sorts. they all have there place. and they all have uses. the main problem ive had with dogs that travel empty earths is the time it takes to net up every earth.not a big problem to be honest. the only time ive seen it be a serious problem is when the dogs are on the big side. . scenting ability has to be up there with size and voice as essential qualities in earth working terriers. i dont believe for one minute that there is a strain of terriers that mark on top 100%. and dont produce young terriers wanting to travel from an early age. they may be drawn in by the scent. but the make up of terriers tells them to search and destroy. maybe ive picked it up wrong but any terrier that wont hunt for scent i wouldnt own. my brother owned a very good dog that wouldnt travel empty earths. he was never proved wrong but on top he would walk close by only ventering out when he lifted or winded an animal. he was proved wrong often on top by a very busy jr bitch that went out of her way to find . it takes all sorts and we all have different idea's but call me old fashioned but i like a dog to have the instinct to go out and find. above and below. good thread anyone that thinks there terriers are robots are deluded. to say the least.

 

. How dare you come on here talking common sence you will go in the black book dont you know. Well bred clones excist

[Jack Daniels 33]

a pup should have been brought up walking around burrows from a young age, mines gets walked in fields every day, and i know what fields to walk, meaning that if im going with a young pup around the 9- 10 months age ill start walking him on his own over ground where i know the pup will get a lot of scents and good pads that will be very active and he will show me signs of how he is coming on and using his nose, if your at this game a while you will know signs better than a 10 month old pup wether stuff has been about and how recent!

 

Then when right age and when the terrier is telling me he is ready to work he will get tried between 15 & 16 months depending on the pup some might look to go that wee bit earlier.... but his first will be where or old faithful the terrier has been walked to the hole on a lead and is tellin you 100% there is a fox in ground....holes will be netted old faithful took back to car, and said young terrier brought over off the lead and will be allowed to take me where he wants to go.... and IMO that should be straight to the hole where the fox is in and if around working terriers long enough you should get a fair idea from that moment on wether said young terrier will more than likely amount too.... now his first few chances will be holes that i would have had success from time after time and would say i would know pretty much every end and depth... so again i will have a pretty good idea how quick he SHOULD find and how long it will take me to get to him if the fox decides he does not want to bolt!

then after hes done what i have asked and i have checked him in a few places and hes said NO, now when i say a terrier saying no, i dont mean him running through it then telling you its empty i mean from a snort a dog should be able to tell wether a fox is home or not..... then old faithful will get a look and if he says NO then its a NO....after a few times of that and all is positive then i will be trusting my young terrier 100% and if i had 1 doubt out comes old faithful and if he proves me right which has happened.... then young terrier will go to grannys... but theres nothing better doubting your young terrier on a mark and old faithful proving young terrier was right...then you know you should have the makings of a goodun!

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

Sometimes the fear of the dark hole scares some dogs more than the quarry at the end, but I like to get dogs comfortable around holes by letting them watch then letting them have a run about, a dog has to learn when to say no at earths which are empty, and only by checking empty and live earths will it click in its head what it's job is in the hunt. I guess it's just different ways that people do it, but who's right or wrong? My opinion is which ever works best for you and your dogs are working week in week out them that's the correct way for you.

[Jack Daniels 33]

Sometimes the fear of the dark hole scares some dogs more than the quarry at the end, but I like to get dogs comfortable around holes by letting them watch then letting them have a run about, a dog has to learn when to say no at earths which are empty, and only by checking empty and live earths will it click in its head what it's job is in the hunt. I guess it's just different ways that people do it, but who's right or wrong? My opinion is which ever works best for you and your dogs are working week in week out them that's the correct way for you.

if this is the case then you really do want to get out of terrier work...... LOL.....