Centrefire Advice

[maktayla 50]

Hi everyone,

 

I am going to apply for a variation soon for centrefire. What are your opinions/ advice on this.

 

I want to apply for .243. Ive got a feeling my FEO is going to try and get me to go for a 22-250 or .223 instead. He did this a 12 month ago when I asked then. The reason I am doing it now is because I did not have a mentor at the time and he asked if I could give it another 12 month or so after I gain a bit more experience with my HMR for example. So, the 12 month has passed and I want a .243. The reasons behind this are:

 

I have thousands of acres to shoot and a lot of this has deer, (mostly muntjac). I do not intend to take deer at this moment in time because it will take me some considerable time to save the money to attend a DSC course. But, I will definately be looking at it, in the not too distant future.

 

Luckily enough, the farmers are good friends of mine on the land I shoot. Not so long ago, on one of my permissions, I saw a fox attached to a fence. It was still quite fresh and I could clearly see he had received the heart/lung shot. When I talked to the farmer, he said it was probably the one that had been taking his chickens and a man with a high calibre rifle took care of it for him. At that point I felt as if I had failed him because he had mentioned this fox to me on a number of occassions. I had aslo seen this fox in my scope before but could not take the shot at the distance. If I had a centrefire I could have.

 

On a few of my permissions I have now seen foxes out to centrefire distances and its getting frustrating. Don't get me wrong, if I can call a fox in in, my HMR does a wonderful job in the head. But when you see Charlie just out beyond the reaches of my HMR more than once it gets annoying. We all know the feeling when we bag a fox and the famer is pleased.

 

The argument I want to put forward to my FEO IS:

1. I do not want to end up losing land because I am faling to take care of a fox problem.

2. Wouldn't it be better to have one calibre for all. Rather than a 22-250, .223 now and then applying again in the future for a .243

 

Any help or opinions please, would be greatly appreciated. Do you have to attend a DSC to take muntjac for example?

 

 

[SportingShooter 0]

Sounds like a sensible argument for a .243 and you obviously have "good reason" to acquire one,

 

Don't over complicate things worrying about a DSC course for Deer or even having it on your FAC. The course is not compulsory or a legal requirement in order to obtain Deer.

 

The FEO can be as awkward as he/she likes, he still has to prove quite conclusively why your good reason is not enough, which it seems to be, and why by owning a .243 you'd be a danger to public health and safety any more than owning a .22-250.

[Deker 3,478]

Don't tell him you are not interested in deer for months, mention Bigger deer, don't harp on about Muntjac, don't get stressed about a DSC, and be careful about telling him you are good at calling in foxes to HMR distance.

 

You are doing a good job in that post of talking yourself out of any centrefire, reading that I would only consider a .22CF, not a .243!

 

Build the need more strongly for a CF and a .243.

 

[TheRealChuckNorris 42]

Hi Maktayla, sounds like a .243 would be a great all-round tool for your needs. I have both the .223 and .243 but it's the .243 that comes out most often as I can take Fox, Mutjac or Roe on my farm. It sounds like you've got good reason to hold and as Deker mentioned, I wouldn't get too specific about the species of deer.

 

If you're serious about the deer stalking then don't limit yourself with a .223 (especially as you'll still have to keep an eye on the MV and bullet weight) or you'll just be contacting them again to get another rifle soon enough. Likewise, if a Roe buck starting causing a few issues on your permission then your farmer would still need to get someone in to handle the issue.

 

Sounds like you've got a good permission there with enough quarry to warrant the step up, don't be shy in asking for multiple calibres - the only way you definitely won't get it is if you don't ask.

[Alsone 789]

I agree with Deker.

 

Just say you need a rifle to control both deer and fox. If you mention you intend to shoot deer "in the future" then you don't currently have good reason and they'll tell you to get a .22X calibre for now and apply for a variation in the future for deer. That will cost you a lot for the extra rifle etc. and cost isn't good reason either for granting .243 today instead of tomorrow. Don't put deer shooting off. If you want to shoot deer, apply now and then you can always hold off shooting live prey until you feel confident, knowledgeable and well practised.You don't have to go live straight away against the deer just because it's granted. Practising on targets for deer is perfectly acceptable before going for the 1st live kill. I doubt an FAO wants you to potentially injure animals though lack of zeroing or practice.

 

As SS said, you don't legally need to hold a DSC qualification to shoot deer, although no harm in gaining the extra knowledge. Just don't let them force it on you.

 

Once you throw deer into the equation, provided they are not exclusively Munjac or CWD, they have to grant you at least a .243 by law, so .243 becomes then becomes the minimum calibre (if you have a cautious FAO then he'll probably be falling over himself to grant .243 instead of some larger calibre in those circumstances), and if you have good reason for fox, then you should have good reason for ALQ on the .243 as .243 is a recommended fox calibre for good reason purposes.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well to be a little pedantic, the minimum calibre for large deer is .240, Holland and Holland used to (probably still do to order) a .240 h&h so it was decided this would be the minimum calibre, as it was at the time quite a popular calibre with gentelmen stalkers visiting the highlands, to the op, dont limit yourself, you have ticked all the boxes for a .243 or .25-06 no problem, you can use them on anything from fox to red stag, dont mention the deer species, you have deer and authority to take them, no need for dsc, get your application in and enjoy mate.

[maktayla 50]

I would like to thank you all for your replies, advice and moral support. Glad I got the DSC thing out of the way. I had a feeling it wasnt compulsory but you now how Police forces vary from one place to another. I have seen all sorts being posted throughout the forums by people applying for their certificates mentioning unjustifiable conditions by different forces.

My circumstances have changed considerably sincei first posted this. So I will certainly be applying for deer and fox. I have had a couple of people offer to take me stalking and that will be great for experience. Im a very happy chappy now.

Dont know whether I should start a new post on this, so apologies if I should have;

I dont want want to get to ahead of myself as i havent even applied yet but, should I get my .243 granted, what is one of the best lowest priced rifles I could buy. I dont want to go to cheap but I'm probably looking at at around 400-500 pound area. If I was to go second hand, what should I look out for. Ive got a lot of reading to do but i have heard of barrel life and dont want to go down the second hand road, if at all possible if this is a major factor. Would I get a .243 in the price range im talking about with a changeable barrel.

Think I will stop there. Got loads of questions, sorry gents.

Thanks for your help

[andrew macmillan 8]

Hi Mark, wish i could help but this is well out of my league mate. Hope someone with the knowledge you need gets back to you soon

[andrew macmillan 8]

The knowledge is pouring in mate, charlie knows his stuff and it sounds like a .243 is the way forward Mark.

[TheRealChuckNorris 42]

You'll get a new Marlin XS7 or Savage Arms for £400ish but that's without scope, mounts or moderator (which you may want to factor in). A second hand option would be the best bet for that budget and I'm not well up on the interchangeable barrels but I think they're more in the domain of the expensive end of the market.

 

Don't worry about barrel wear too much, just check the condition (no pitting) and that the crown is in good nick (especially if its threaded).

 

I shopped around and picked up a Howa 1500 with a Wildcat mod for £295 from an RFD which has served me well and showing no signs of letting me down.

 

Don't skimp on the scope and the mounts, you'll need something that can cope with a bit of recoil.

[SportingShooter 0]

Howa springs to mind in that sort of price range, maybe a tad more for a new rifle, but as Chuck says, that's without a scope, mod, mounts, bipod, sling and everything else you'll be wanting. No necessarily needing but it is quite addictive once you start.

 

I would keep the age of the rifle sensible, i.e. under 3-5 years old depending on the rifle and if you know some of the rifle's history then even better. For instance I wouldn't by a second hand centrefire that had been used for target shooting if you tried to give it to me, you never quite know how many rounds it's had down range and target shooters do tend to go through ammunition. In the same breath I wouldn't buy a former estate rifle for a similar reason.

 

The .243 is not especially known as a barrel burner. It will if you constantly fire very light fox loads at close to 4000fps through it wear quicker but not akin to the .220 Swift or even the .22-250.

 

Interchangable barrels seem to go in and out of fashion. In most rifles, it's probably cheaper to have a second rifle all set up than having to change the barrel, alter the zero and potentially have two moderators if the calibre is significantly larger or smaller.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Howa/Weatherby vanguard, (same rifle) save up a bit, you will have plenty of time while you wait for variation, lol, mine will shoot a ragged one hole group @100 yards with my reloads, and damn near half inch with factory stuff, the engineering is superb, put some decent glass on it and it will fill the pot with the best of them, a good used model will be fine mate just make sure the barrel is good, dont start worrying about burning your barrel out, you will never wear it out stalking and foxing pal, trust me, .243 is a brilliant calibre mate, enjoy

[maktayla 50]

Thanks guys

So nice to have this input/advice. Got quite some time to save. Its the glass that has now got me thinking as well. Ive been shooting rimfires for the last couple of years and its not been too much of a thing when it comes to glass. I have also been a photographer and i know all too well how much decent glass can cost. I have no idea of the recoil on a .243 and, please correct me if i am wrong, i wouldnt imagine it being as much as say, a shotgun for example. Put a long story short, thanks to you all, i now have a better understanding on the rifle and barrel life, but what would i be looking at for a decent glass, i.e make and prices. Sorry gents, yet again, budget is tight.

[andrew macmillan 8]

looks like a Howa then mate, good luck with getting one in your price range and if you can't afford some decent glass you could tape my spotting scope on it buddy.lol

[TheRealChuckNorris 42]

Scopes are a personal thing and what one person likes you'll have two others saying it's crap for them and they wouldn't touch them. The top options (Swarovski and Zeiss etc.) are a bit pricey here so anything that's centre fire rated will do and as long as the mounts are strong then it'll hold zero for you.

 

To get an idea of what's in your budget have a look on Uttings (for new scopes). I picked an MTC Mamba as it does everything I need for now and I can't afford £1000 for a Zeiss.

 

I think the best thing you can do is to have a look around the different sites (including GunTrader) and see what pops up in your budget but as it has been mentioned there are more accessories that you'll soon want so keep that in mind if £500 is your ceiling.

 

Draw up a shortlist based on what you think will suit and people will give you the benefit of their experience if you have questions on a particular model.

 

Happy shopping!