Plummer Terriers

[wirral countryman 2,110]

My opinion is there are better bushers, at better prices.

there maybe better prices but there is no better terrier for bushing, WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Do like plummers! That's why I'm so interested ! I'd just like to find a pup from working stock! I'm going to have to take on two terriers. One for digging and a bushing dog! Not gojng to take the risk of using one for both jobs!!! Brilliant pictures by the way clean spade

Dan there is no need to have 2 separate terriers when 1 decent 1 can do the job, WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

I've seen three Plummers work on a number of occasions. Two of them dogs both dog aggressive, saw one grab a pup that tried to push past on the lead. Same dog was possessive over game and the other dog wasn't good with any other dog near holes..Before you say "well that's terriers" the third bitch that I knew went to a pet home as it was reluctant to enter dense cover.

Unlucky I may have been but I only said "in my opinion."

 

I glad you've got a good'en Cleanspade.

 

Also the man was looking for a bushing dog and that it would be used on beats. To me a Spaniel springs to mind .

Lee, you've only seen poor second rate plummers then, I would not of kept and bred mine for 35yrs if that description was in any way accurate, WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

seen 6-7 plummers, all bar one were unless but i have seen several on film that look lively, so the jury is still out for me.

i was disappointed that none i saw shown any beagle traits, they hunt like Russel's or any other terrier.

 

beware new terrier breeds rarely nowt new about them...just look a bit differ from the last new one

 

kev-medlock crew.

Kev, I've been out with a lot more poor border terriers than 6 or 7 but would never make sweeping statements after such a limited experience of them, there are good and bad in every breed type and that is true of plummers as well, I think there is little difference in any good example workwise and these are the ones that should be bred from, not pretty looking coat types that are poor workers or dog aggressive, WM

[wuyang 513]

WM, what size do your bitches make and do you still find much size variation in your pups? I was talking to a fella in the woods the other day who had a rescued plummer....it was a weird looking, very leggy and a elongated face, bit like fox terriers face.

 

Do you see many that are more like the old size Jack russels?

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Wuyang, all my litters have been quite steady size wise TTS and span, bitches have been 11 "- 12" and dogs 12" - 13" except for 1 bitch "Roxy" that's been lined by a son of "ACE", she stands 13"TTS but is spannable, I see a few snipey headed leggy terriers with obvious Plummer ancestry, some 17"TTS, but if you look on this section alone in the last 12 months there has been talk of whippet/plummer crosses, patt/plummer crosses and many other strange crosses talked about, you will always get a lot of litter wastage when using dogs that carry a mix of breed types in their generic history, 1st and 2nd crosses will produce the expected result normally but once the resulting progeny go on to breed is when you breed mongrel street dogs with no idea of the size, shape or work ethic of the progeny, we are gifted with a lot of steady breed types that have traditionally been used for bushing, they breed true to type and work efficiently at the job, there is no need to re-invent the wheel messing about with other breed types when the established breeds already have it covered, atb, WM

[wuyang 513]

WM.....cheers for that......11-12" is a nice size for a bitch, I do prefer the small type terriers.....just seem naturally suited to working bramble runs. I went to a plummer terrier show a few years back in rotherham and the size variation was quite apparent......just got big soft spot for the traditional little jrt size type.

[csd_88 138]

One plummers no good on its own they soon get found out, better to run them in a pack so they can chace bunnys into each other you get much better results, there not the most hardy of dogs imo. Give me a good hardy russel with a good jacket over one any day of the week.

Edited September 20, 2014 by csd_88

[Tozer 385]

patt/plummer crosses and many other strange crosses talked about, you will always get a lot of litter wastage when using dogs that carry a mix of breed types in their generic history, 1st and 2nd crosses will produce the expected result normally but once the resulting progeny go on to breed is when you breed mongrel street dogs with no idea of the size, shape or work ethic of the progeny, we are gifted with a lot of steady breed types that have traditionally been used for bushing, they breed true to type and work efficiently at the job, there is no need to re-invent the wheel messing about with other breed types when the established breeds already have it covered, atb, WM

 

I agree with the sentiment, and it is a case of breeding pups for pups sake. But is this not how the plummer came about, I have seen a lot of people asking about breeding terriers with beagles.. and they are almost breeding plummers!

 

Would surely this would only be a problem if you were selling these as pure plummer?

 

I will also take back a comment I made on this thread before about there not being much difference regardless of the type of terrier. I have come to realise that plummers make a better alrounder more consistently than most.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Tozer

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Tozer, the Plummer terrier came about as 1 mans pipe dream, he had a good knowledge of genetics and still messed it up, it took many years of selective breeding and 2 outcrosses in 45 yrs to get to where we are now, breeding true to type and healthy is not a quick process, WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

One plummers no good on its own they soon get found out, better to run them in a pack so they can chace bunnys into each other you get much better results, there not the most hardy of dogs imo. Give me a good hardy russel with a good jacket over one any day of the week.

I've never read such rubbish, I have had 1 terrier many times and still caught more in cover than the lurchers on a day out on the bunnies, I had 1 plummer dog on his own for 10 yrs that caught and killed everything before him, you need to get out more with better terriers, WM

[Tozer 385]

Tozer, the Plummer terrier came about as 1 mans pipe dream, he had a good knowledge of genetics and still messed it up, it took many years of selective breeding and 2 outcrosses in 45 yrs to get to where we are now, breeding true to type and healthy is not a quick process, WM

 

I get that, I was more tallking about your criticism of breeding them with whippets/patts/spaniels etc. I know you are doing a good job with a bit of outcrossing your own.

 

I have a classic example of something that was sold as a pure plummer, she isn't spannable and currently stands at 15" at 9 months. Her chest is like a mini whippets. But I have no complaints as I was after something like it.

It was your comments about the difference in breed and people crossing this with that. I have already ruled out breeding from my bitch as I don't think she has anything to add to a working plummer, at 9 months there is a lot I have to learn from her, and she will do me proud.

 

I can see how a decent terrier with a bit of beagle and some bull for strength would be a belting dog.